House of Lords Judgment against Gary McKinnon now online


The House of Lords Judgment dismissed Gary McKinnon's appeal against extradition to the USA, is now available online:

McKinnon (Appellant) v Government of the United States of America (Respondents) and another

The lead Opinion, which the other four Law Lords agreed with, was written by Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood, who served until last year April 2006, as the Intelligence Services Commissioner, so he is steeped in the Whitehall culture of "partnership" with the US Military and intelligence agencies.

Gary's solicitors have applied to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg for interim relief. This could be decided on within ten days or twenty days.

One point of law being put to the ECHR is the same as Babar Ahmad i.e. the risk of being subjected to Guantanamo Bay style military or special category justice, and the other point is the threats that were made against Gary.

N.B. comments are now closed on this thread, as over 300 comments are quite cumbersome unless you have a fast internet connection.


I'm so angered and saddened by this decision; I've been following the case all along and i really thought that sense and proportionality would prevail. This is an abject disgrace.

Please contact me if there is anything help that you need.

Let's keep our fingered crossed for the ECHR!!!


Dermot Reid, Dublin.

Good decision.

He broke into U.S. military computer networks and therefore should stand trial in the U.S. and serve his sentence, if found guilty, in the U.S. He should also pay restitution for the costs the network administrators had to expend to repair the damage he did.


He did not break into US networks, they were wide open, he merely logged-on.

He could have stood trial in the UK as he and all of the evidence and his admission to unauthorised access were all in the UK.

The extradition treaty he is being processed under was meant to be for terrorists, not white collar crime, but i'm sure you're probably not aware of this.

As for 'the damage he did', he denies it and you are assuming he did it just because he is accused - ever heard of 'innocent until proven guilty' ?

As for paying restitution, all military and government systems should be adhering to stringent computer security guidelines, having NO passwords and NO firewalls does not come anywhere near those standards and perhaps the network admins should be paying for those mistakes.

He is not a terrorist, Paul McNulty said so, no one has died and he admits no damage.

Whoever did cause the damage isn't a terrorist either because, according to the US authorities, they just lost e-mail access for a few weeks.

@ Christina - do you think that the senior US Military officers, Defense Contractors and politicians who were so negligent with US military computer systems, for so many years, should be allowed to go unpunished ?

This is a political decision and injustice at the highest level, state sponsored propaganda! The Americans have been made to look like fools and they don't want to lose face. Speak up for Gary, lets not allow the UK to become governed by the US.


You wrote: "do you think that the senior US Military officers, Defense Contractors and politicians who were so negligent with US military computer systems, for so many years, should be allowed to go unpunished ?"

OK, so let's follow your "logic".

Let's say you leave your home and leave your door unlocked. You done so for years, even though you know it's not a smart decision.

After you leave, I go into your home and clean you out. Jewelery, electronics, everything. Gone.

Following your logic, YOU should be prosecuted by the legal system for being negligent and leaving your door unlocked.

You might want to rethink your comment and stop trying to excuse what the criminal has done.

He should not be extradited.

But he broke the law and he caused damages, therefore he should be tried and sentenced. But the sentence should reflect the fact that he is not a terrorist (so far as we know) and did not intend to benefit from the act (again, so far as we know). It is human nature to play games by cracking codes and testing security systems and this should also be taken into account in sentencing.

But he should not be tried in the US. It is clear that the US acts disproportionately in such cases and does not respect international conventions.

Finally, though it should not affect the case, thank God it was Gary McKinnon who achieved the hack and thereby demonstrated extraordinary weaknesses in the systems. We hope he is the only one. We must presume that the download of a picture of a UFO (which led to his arrest) was an attempt to gain a trophy, because I doubt that terrorists would attempt something so trivial and so certain to lead to detection!

Thank you for this opportunity to express an opinion. And good luck to Gary in the ECHG.

Bill Young

Britain might now exist in the pocket of the USA, but the rest of the European Union do not. Countless politically motivated decisions have been made by the courts up until now but the next court will undoubtedly make its decision based on the law rather than warped diplomacy.

I have absolute faith that Gary McKinnon will not be extradited because the crime was committed in Britain, not the USA. Dubya might be able to persuade our pathetic British Government to think otherwise, but he will receive no similar favours on the continent.

Please let this fool hang for his crimes. The outrage is unwarranted and unreasonable. Anyone supporting this idiot should also hang. I'm so tired of human rights maniacs moaning and groaning about second chances and freedom. He messed up and he's going to pay. Stop your belly-aching and realize there are CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR ACTIONS. Stop being little whinny babies and GROW UP!!!


James, let's follow your (entirely faulty) logic :

What do you think would make most people feel worse ?

1. Having their house broken into and completely robbed or ..

2. Having someone snoop around their computer ?

You might want to rethink how you regurgitate computer-security vendors' 'house-burgling' scenario which is used to get an emotive response from users and encourage them to buy the vendors products ...

@fg: No network is 100% secure. The US military does as much as they can to protect their network. But they also depend on the laws against hacking to work as a deterrent. Gary knew that breaking into US military computers was illegal. Now he needs to answer for his crimes. Why should he be judged by a UK court? It wasn't the UK that he injured. He should be a man and accept responsibility for his actions.

He broke a big law, let him pay the price for such a terrible decision. He is lucky they are not brining him up on treason or espionage charges. He hacked someones computers, he needs to pay the price for that, especially since he was arrogant enough to try and hack the U.S military.

@ James - your analogy with a burglary is wrong - nothing was stolen.

The claims for financial damage are vastly exaggerated and would have been enough to purchase brand new computer systems, even back circa 2002.

If someone looks into your building, from another country, via an open window, would you put in a claim for financial damage which would be enough to buy a brand new building as a result ?

Are you saying that the incompetent, or possibly corrupt, or perhaps deliberately treacherous , senior officials and military officers (not the low level systems administrators who were just following their orders) in charge of those totally unsecured computer systems connected to the internet without a firewall should go unpunished ?

There is no excuse whatsoever for leaving military systems unsecured for years on end.

I doubt that it's a fair prosecution that Gary will face over in the US.
I agree whole-heartedly that actions like this should be discussed in a court, but facing the future of 70 years + several million dollars payment - for this is something that would be a fair thing if he earned millions with the knowledge gained in the computers or sold the information there to anyone outside.

I hope the US courts will give him a fair judgement for his crimes - and the pentagon offers him a job there...
actually it's a real waste of manpower.

This guy made a terrible decision and needs to pay the price. No doubt that the Pentagon wants to make an example of him, as they should. If a U.S. hacker broke into the MI5 computers he would also face extradition to the U.K.

Hackers are self-serving clowns with no sense of personal responsibility who enjoy destroying the work of others and making their lives miserable. They serve no useful purpose (unless hired to stop other hackers) and should be punished if caught, just like any thief or vandal.

What is the logic behind maintaining he should be freed?

This man broke into the United States Dept of Defence. He broke United States law. He should be tried in the United States of America for his crimes. Which he committed against the "people" of the United States of America. We are not a third world country. We have a constitution to protect his rights, the United kingdom does not. He would recieve a fair and just trial. I would allow him to serve his sentence in the United Kingdom. If I "hacked" in to her Majesties defence dept. I would expect to be tried in the United Kingdom. I have had great respect for your country in the past. But if this is an example of the "thoughts" of the British people towards the people of the United States. I think we need to re-think our allience. What a shame.....

They should just hire him (or make him work for free) to prevent it from ever happening again and be done with it - instead of wasting all this time and f***ing money. The dude doesnt belong in an american jail and be forced to spend the rest of his life in jail - if it was up to me he would be tried in the UK - good luck Gary.

I don’t understand the fuss. This guy committed a crime and he should be punished. It’s not political. If he didn’t want to go to prison, perhaps he shouldn’t commit a crime. Its really not that complicated. Don’t you guys have a more important issue to support? How’s that universal health care working out?

If an American hacked my home pc, which is a breach of my security and therefore punishable, would the said hacker be extradited for their 'crimes'? Errrrr no. The fact that I use passwords, firewalls, locked folders, etc. shows that I try to actually cover any loopholes, it's a shame American Government institutions cannot show the same level of intelligence.

Have the British received one succesful extradition regarding the abhorently named 'friendly fire'? Are they ever likely to? Have we not been told by the US Govt. that they will never release anyone for those crimes?

How many people did McKinnon murder? How many have the US armed forces murdered in 'friendly fire'?

Do the American Government and Secret Services not employ the use of hackers to have a good feel around other Governments computer systems? Is this not hypocrisy? Is it not a breach of other countries security? Should they not be extradited when caught? Would the US extradite them?

This whole episode stinks. McKinnon broke no laws in this country in 2002 and therefore he is having his Human Rights abused, and I hope to God the ECHR adhere to this. Because I am ashamed of the British lawmakers not protecting one of it's citizen's against US Governmental blackmail.

Gary Mckinnon should have to pay for his crime, But not in a US court room. He should face his judgement in a U.K court room. Have the Lords, been reading the paper??Gary would never get a fair trial here in the US. I am a poud American by I am well aware that my goverment under the current leadership are not following our laws & have become what they were fighting.
How could the UK treat their citzens this way.. never mind .. I know we are being treated the same here in American. I know now how Hitler got by with what he did for so long. I have watched the world sit back and let our goverment under current leadership comment awful crimes and the world just stood by.... Thank God this leadership will only last a few more months.
My prayers are with Gary's Mum.

@ Bill Conlon - UK MI5 or Ministry of Defence computers have never been as vulnerable as the US Military ones - partly due to greater professionalism, and partly because they were reluctant to connect them to the internet at all, and did so much later than the US, with proper precautions.

Unlike Gary, if you had been arrested in the USA facing extradition to the UK, the UK authorities would have to provide a prima facie case to a US Court, which could be challenged by your defence lawyers e.g. to disprove the exaggerated claims for financial damages, for example.

Whilst all the Magistrates, Judges and Law Lords and the Home Secretary have, no doubt, been given access to the allegations, there is no opportunity, under the unequal Extradition Act 2003 (which was only made law after Gary was arrested in 2002) for his defence lawyers to examine or for a British Court to reject any of the actual evidence.

That is not how it used to be under the previous, more equal extradition arrangements between the UK and the USA.

The whole Extradition process here simply consists of checking that the extradition documentation applies to the correct person and that there is a broadly equivalent crime under both the US and UK legal systems.

@ Geoff - "McKinnon broke no laws in this country in 2002" - actually he probably did break the UK Computer Misuse Act 1990, since he was physically in London at the time.

Gary has always said that he regrets what he did, and that he is willing to face a British court and, if necessary, serve time in a British prison.

I am totally for this (not this site, what the courts are doing to him). He wasn't thinking and decided to partake in some illegal activities. No matter what his intentions were, they are still illegal. He admitted to it, so we can all skip the initial part finding him guilty or not. The rest is just cooperation between countries according to agreements they've had for years. Big deal. Maybe next time he'll learn not to try to break into networks that aren't his.

This guy's a criminal, regardless of how you try to excuse what he did. And as an example to others who may be similarly contemplating a lark into others computer networks... through CODE BREAKING and such... he needs to be appropriately punished.
And while we're talking about punishment, some of you folks think you'll never see him again. I read that the punishment is up to 5 years in prison and $250,000.00. So he'll be back... maybe to break into YOUR computer network, ya Wankers.

@ Jason - I am being charitable with your "hang" comment and will let it stand , but please do not utter threats here online, or you may be facing an extradition warrant yourself !

Bill Conlon wrote: "This man broke into the United States Dept of Defence. He broke United States law. He should be tried in the United States of America for his crimes. Which he committed against the "people" of the United States of America. We are not a third world country. We have a constitution to protect his rights, the United kingdom does not."

Bill - there is much to love about the United States. Not on that list: the lack of understanding of the USA's place in the world which is sadly prevalent (although far from universal) amongst the citizenry of your admittedly very fine country.

If your argument that the Constitution would guarantee McKinnon a fair trial is the basis for your assertion that he should be extradited, why is he so keen to stay in the UK?

He may have committed acts (not yet crimes, as he hasn't been convicted) which are illegal under US law, but why do you think he has to be extradited to be tried under US law? Answer: because US law applies in the US, but not in the UK.

You are no doubt justified in feeling angry that your nation's defence department has been breached and shown up as being naive or incompetent. Please consider, however, that righteous anger alone does not justify total circumvention of established legal process. That is what you are suggesting is the correct course of action - and by doing so you are joining an illustrious group which includes the current British government, who are in my considered opinion a bunch of spineless weasels.

Please bear in mind that, had he committed these crimes today (or since the revised extradition treaty came into effect in 2005) the situation legal would be different. Not so long ago (early 80s), it was legal to copy computer software without worrying about licensing. Now it is illegal. Using your brand of logic, one could suggest that those who made copies of software in the 80s should suddenly be charged under current law - patently absurd.

The European Court of Human Rights has a real chance to do something worthwhile (for once). Let us all hope that common sense and, above all, the rule of law prevails.

Gary definately did commit a crime by hacking but any punishment should be proportionate to the damage caused.

We can hardly expect a fair trial after the treatment of the Guantanamo prisoners.

This government should not extradite people to places like America which do not practice anything resembling justice.

I can imagine that comments here would be very different if he was going to be extradited to Saudi Arabia, but America is just as bad as Saudi Arabia. In fact I don't think Saudi Arabia has an island where it keeps prisoners gagged and bound and tortured.

This is not the thoughts of British people against all Americans - only the silly gits such as those which seem to be replying here.

And this case too, is silly. So he poked around in a few employees computers. Cry me a frikkin' river!

And I see double standards! On one hand people are shouting that punishment should be tough. (i.e. not acting like pussies, to put it crassly). And on the other hand, whinging like babies when they left their door unlocked and a stranger came in for a look around. (i.e. acting like pussies).

I just hope the ECHR has more sense than the UK government.

Good luck Gary.

>> We have a constitution to protect his rights
That apply to Guantanamo inmates? People in Iraq? A prisoner in a secret jail cell somewhere that the outside world knows nothing about?
Any rate, you seem to interpret that constitution however you feel like (e.g. the death penalty seems pretty cruel and unusual to me).

>> This guy made a terrible decision and needs to pay the price
Ok, lets convict all people who make the terrible decision of peeping through open doors. And if you think that it makes a difference that the "door" is that of the military, well that just shows how lop sided the law is. Civilians don't seem to get the same rights. Is the American military going to use its immense resources to track down + extradite the American hacker that breaks into my website?

>> If a U.S. hacker broke into the MI5 computers he would also face extradition to the U.K.
So? That doesn't make it right. I'd be against that extradition too.

Not sure which interpretation of the pro extradition comments is sadder. Iether these are just govt PR people (US or UK)doing their dirty little jobs or genuine totalitarians happy to see any 'transgressor'killed for the slightest infringement of US imperial will.
To follow the previous analogy of someone walking into your unlocked house, they would not be commiting a crime in the UK unless they did something to your detriment and so far as I understand no damage was done. Even catching sight of someone in embarrassing acts would not do so, far less entitle you to blow their head off (or imprison them for 60 years)but that is beside the point now as this case clearly indicates UK citizens are now subject to US law and WITHOUT the (post patriot act)'constitutional protection' that US citizens would benefit from. Welcome to the 51st State! (or is it 57th now?) Thanks Tony!

Oh please! He knew exactly what he was doing as a grown adult. This was very deliberate on his part and people have to know that there are consequences to their actions.

Every criminal has a mother who will defend them no matter what they do, save the melodrama please.

No man is above the law. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time.. Better men are doing time now for less serious offenses. Quit crying and be a man. Your mum cant save you this time.

@fg - God! Who are you? Regarding MI5 and the net vs the US Government and their connection to and use of ... they, NOT Al Gore :>) invented the net to begin with! And what is all this crap and die hard support for this guy Gary? He's a crook. Maybe a smart crook but a crook none the less. His crime was against the Government of the United States and therefore he should be tried by their courts and held accountable to their laws governing his crime. Don't tell me or dupe yourself into believing that he didn't know the consequences of his actions should he be caught. Jeez... looking for proof of UFOs what a dumb-ass. And for all of his trouble what did he find looking in the Naval Weapons Station and their supply computers? Crook! Thief! Hacker! Criminal! Moran! No, wait. That's you.

By Kevin on July 30, 2008 1:28 PM

And while we're talking about punishment, some of you folks think you'll never see him again. I read that the punishment is up to 5 years in prison and $250,000.00. So he'll be back... maybe to break into YOUR computer network, ya Wankers.

Yes Kevin, the gracious Government of the USA has agreed to give him less time on the basis that he admits to whatever panders them. If he refuses to co-operate he will get decades in your de-humanising jails.

"The authorities have warned that without his co-operation and a guilty plea the case could be treated as terrorism and he could face a long jail sentence." (BBC)

I believe it's a form of blackmail from the highest authority in your country. But Mr Bush always did believe himself above the law. Who will try the US Government for it's total flagrance of international law? Who will extradite those the British want to question regarding the inept armed forces of the US with regards the numerous 'friendly fire' cases, one of which was passed unlawful by the courts in this country?

And you are right fg he did break the law on British soil but was never charged (BBC), so I apologise.

The USA is a rogue nation under the Bush administration and as such the whims of it's perverse judicial system are now moot and are to be disregarded by the entire international legal community.

The extradition - if actioned is a travesty and todays decision reeks of an egregious deficit in justice.

He has suffered enough for a trivial act of mischief that has been by design hyperbolised to and beyond the point of lunacy by typically vacuous Americans.

This decision will not stand and he will not be extradited.

this is another example of destruction of a country and its sovereignty at the hands of our corrupt arse kissing politicians.we have a perfectly fit judicial system to deal with Garry mc kinnon´s case in the uk yet our incompetent and puppet government has to prove who their masters are by extraditing him to usa that has a very established record on human rights !!!!!
i think this is appaling and the public must make a stand for this and other similar cases.
we are a sovereign country and we do not need americans to deal with any offences taken place on british soil.for how long are we going to put up with this misery and stupidity,i don´t know.
the sooner this useless and puppet government leaves office the better.
i ask all british public not to take this matter lightly because it is the honour and dignity of this country and the british people at stake.

America will have a real problem on there hands soon enough as i have summons a race of reptilian beings that are know on route to earth there have earths coordinates and i promise will be arriving shortly i have stressed the evil that america is to the whole planet and that a few men control the world these men will be made visible for all humanity to see. Life will change on this planet forever once there arrive religion will be killed off money will reign no more we will all be enslaved majestic-12 know of this using looking glass technology as i have altered the timelines we are know back on timeline 2.

Chinese hackers with links to the chinese military have been hacking Computers in white hall and in the pentagon for years.

He faces up to 70 years in Guatemala Bay for looking for UFO evidence on a government network. That makes no sense. And if this one system admin broke into the system network, you can ask yourself if Russian or Chinese expert intelligence teams have done this before. So the US government should be thankfull for pointing out their lack of security. But is was wrong of Gary to hack, but seriously, was this really a terrorist treath to the people of the USA?

Has any thought been given to lobbying Barack Obama to see what his position is on the whole affair?

Is it a possibility that his administration could quietly drop the whole thing?

Be best to get in quick before he tours Dallas in an open top car........

Enough of the Guantanamo Bay references. He's being extradited to stand trial in a US CRIMINAL COURT. Not a military court. There is a HUGE difference between the two.

And the argument that "he did no harm" is laughable. Unless, of course, you consider theft of passwords to be harmless. And if you find that harmless, why not post all of your passwords and user IDs here for all of us to copy?

Dries and others;

The only terrorist threat to American nationals is their own government which is a criminal regime by any definition.

Not only is this entire website misleading, i.e. that McKinnon will be tried under the U.S. Military justice system and then has the nerve to throw in references to Guantanamo Bay to imply that is what McKinnon is facing! Hysterical stupidity of the highest order. Where were all these naive liberals in 1944? Did they cry about "detention without trial" for all the thousands of Nazi's captured on the battlefield and sitting in British POW camps? Of course not, those were more practical times with more level headed people. McKinnon will be tried under the civilian U.S. Justice Department system with a civilian jury.

At least "fg" was fair minded in mentioning that McKinnon probably did break the UK Computer Misuse Act of 1990. McKinnon is no saint and his excuses about searching for UFO info is absurd. He's charged with breaking into the Naval Weapons Station computer. If there were any UFO files they would be in NASA and Air Force computers.

The final ignorant and misleading comment that sent me over the edge and landed my fingers on the keyboard was "Adam" telling the readers that in the early 1980's it was legal to copy computer software! Pure wishful thinking!! I've been in the computer industry since 1979 and I know the truth. It has ALWAYS been against the law to copy "Copyrighted" material. The only difference is that both America and Europe have made detection easier and the penalties more severe over the years to take care of people like "Adam" who try to justify illegal behavior.

The problems is that this website and many of the commentators think that their own personal opinions should dictate how the rest of the world should work. If "they" don't think something is "fair" then the heck with the law and the facts. They start making excuses for the criminals and saying the law is wrong. Everything is wrong that does not coincide with their own vision of how the world should work. If you feel your version of reality is correct, then stop whining and get elected to Parliament and change the law to reflect how YOU think it should work. Fortunately over 50% of the voters are clearer thinkers.

James - are you even aware of the history of the case? He wrote a perl script that scanned for administator accounts with BLANK passwords.

And as far as Guantanamo Bay goes "Edward Lawson, another attorney for McKinnon, told an earlier hearing the suspect feared prosecution by a U.S. military commission, under powers introduced after the September 11 attacks.
Lawson said an "unsigned and anonymous" diplomatic note from the U.S. Embassy in London that said McKinnon would not be subject to Military Order No. 1, offered no reassurance he would be dealt with in federal courts.
Military Order No. 1 allows U.S. President George W. Bush to detain terror suspects without trial or put them before military courts."

Gary is the internet equivalent of a vandal and a thief. He deserves to go to jail, hopefully he will. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

HE's not a criminal :(

Computer hackers cause enormous financial losses to governments and private industry every year. Whenever it's possible to make one an example, that's what should happen. Just because someone has the ability to steal doesn't mean they should, and as has already been pointed out, no system is totally hacker-proof. McKinnon shouldn't go to Guantanamo or be tortured, but I won't cry if he gets 20 years.

This is an absolute travesty of British justice. It comes on the same day that the Law Lords have decided it expedient to turn a blind eye to the necessary evil of corruption and dishonesty in dealings with Saudi Arabia by in effect endorsing the decision to cease the SFO investigation. Yet for Gary, the Law Lords seem to think a high moral standard is required. Shame on them and shame on the British justice system. I hope we can all vote in the forthcoming US election because this ruling just emphasises that we in Britain have become, by proxy of our febrile and craven judicial system, de facto US citizens as it seems we all have to abide by US law.

James Mac

If a British vandal and thief deserves to go to an American jail - what does an American president who happens to be a mass murderer deserve?

Stupid facile remarks serve little purpose here.

CenTexKev personally I do not believe this should be about the crime (of which he has admitted so we don't need to keep drawing it out) but the principle behind which the process of law is being conducted. The British signed a new extradition treaty with the USA in 2003 and was ratified in 2005 (please correct me if I'm wrong). However it was a one sided treaty and the British still only have the old treaty for the USA. Now I'm not saying this is anyone in particulars fault but it is heavily one sided towards the USA. What's more the extradition purpose now being used was not available in 2002, the time at which this guy was caught and arrested and released without charge. It is a total abuse of his rights to bring this treaty in a year later in order to file proceedings. In fact, and although no expert, I am certain it has to be a flaw in the extradition proceedings and I am gobsmacked that two of our courts have still rejected his defence. It is also this one sided treaty that doesn't allow wanted possible (or not) criminals from your country to be tried in a fair way in UK.

I hope to God the ECHR show some sense and throw this out of court. They, unlike the UK don't have to pander to the USA's every whim.

He should stand trial in the U.S. When Britains military becomes strong enough to fight its own wars and defend itself without the United States, then Britain could handle it the way they want. The computers and networks are secure, very secure. He tried extremely hard to get into there programs. He had intent. He should be punished by the U.S. Dont forget these systems the U.S. military protects many other countries as well.

By michael Marino on July 30, 2008 2:39 PM

When Britains military becomes strong enough to fight its own wars and defend itself without the United States, then Britain could handle it the way they want.

That is crass stupidity and doesn't deserve a place on this forum.

"Lawson said an "unsigned and anonymous" diplomatic note from the U.S. Embassy in London that said McKinnon would not be subject to Military Order No. 1, offered no reassurance he would be dealt with in federal courts."


"Unsigned and anonymous". Isn't that convenient.

And since he scanned for blank passwords, that somehow makes it OK?

You folks need to stop letting your blind hatred of George W. Bush and Americans in general cloud your judgment.

He broke US law. He admitted he did it. He's going to jail. And usually, criminals aren't asked where they'd like to do their time.

If he wanted to go to jail in the UK, he should have gotten caught breaking into networks in the UK. But he didn't. He's now going to be spending some time in one of the fine Federal Bed and Breakfasts owned and operated by Uncle Sam.

If I were Gary I would just disappear - shave my head, grow a thick beard, vanish completely - even living as a street dosser for a few years has got to be better than what the US will do to him.

After a few years he could probably slip over the channel somehow and eke out an existence in some other country. Plenty of other people do it and manage to survive.

"19. The predicted sentence of 3-4 years was based upon sentencing guidelines themselves based upon a points system."

i think this is the interesting point of the decission.

there is no justice ... its a fuxxing pointsystem!!!

and funny, it seems that its todays normal behavior to give the sentence first, and the formerly "innocent until proof" can choose between you dont resist and tell us all we want to know, or you´ll do it the hard way anyway...

there is no place for justice or innocense, nor any human sense of touch between the connection of fault and punishment... Of course, in a system promoting "war will solve everything", or its good to have a gun, or even attack their own people (incl. killing them) for false cases with false proof (9/11), and they shout it in your face that they give a sxxt if they think its good (for who?).

They did it before (also proven!) and they will do it again if needed ... its a decadent corrupt system and they have all the power. the answer to 1984 is 1776!

You shoud watch the onlinevideo or google for "endgame" another informative documentation about this "matrix-like" world with "them" and "us"... and the proof is known, but noone is interested in until he´s in trouble himself.

First there were the kings and then there was the church and then there were kings and lords and then came the "democratic" systems where you can elect between "same system but different name with little different credos". Do you really think because there will be an "obama-after-bush" the system will change ? forget it! wake up!

We life in the socalled 2008 future land and its still getting worse for normal people like us wich work-there-axx-off-for-THEM-instead-for-us
soon we get our chip and thats it is.... "1984" was yesterday... is there any place in london without CTT cams ??? they train you hat minoritys have no chnace and your best way to survive life is to follow the system (like in the song follow the leader;-)

and to keep us all down-and-silent they pick some like computerhacker (all information should be free and accessable for the good of ALL not only a handfull who own everything) or something undangerous like potsmoker... they dont ever kill s.o. nor is the pot killing s.o. since thousands years of use in the whole word, but since in the 70s the USA started the "war on Marihuana" its handled like you run amok in a kindergarten or so.

The irony in it... the united states of america is all former english-crown-area who founded it... so before they were same like you...

not that any other country did care for anyone...

they never did because power is their game

but its time to stand up!
get off the couch, switch off tv, and mobile
inform yourself on the web
talk with peope about it
get the picture whats going on
and then join a network
and then fight against it!

thats the system of emergency that also always worked out for "us" when "they" started to push too hard on us.

there is one thing george walker jr said wich is true:
there IS a GOOD and a EVIL!
but the point of view sometimes differs, isn´t it ?

btw: i´m german


have a nice living



>>If a British vandal and thief deserves to go to an American jail - what does an American president who happens to be a mass murderer deserve?

The same your former PM deserves.

But what does this have to do with anything? It's hardly relevant here.

As I said in my first post - US law is moot under a criminal regime.

Right or wrong - they have no claim.

the US military is not trying this twit. While some aspects of the US government are running amuck a large part of the government is actually following the law - and trying to rein in the other parts.

Bush may look like the figure head of the US government but there are far more uncorrupt people trying to do their job the right way. Don't hate America because one lone coyboy idiot that they can't even get rid of until November.

McKinnon committed a crime against the US and the US has fair and just laws for punishment. These laws are the same for anyone - British or American - even if they lived in the US. The fact that Briton's punishment is slightly less is just a difference of opinion as to the weight of the crime. Full faith should be extended to the US court system.

A lot of people here seem to be arguing that because they don't like George Bush, that McKinnon should go free. Is that the new standard; that if you don't like somebody it's OK to commit a crime against him (or in the case, the government he heads)?

But more to the point, suppose I mail a poisoned chocolate from the U.S. to someone in England that I'm trying to kill. Suppose he eats it and he dies. Should England have the right to try me? I did nothing within the boundaries of England; everything I did was within the borders of the US. So under the same logic being argued here, why would England have the right to put me on trial?

Gary, may I express my sadness at your being sold out by these 'lords'. They've no sense of justice.

Shame too, it is that the pilot that killed Terry Lloyd (ad all the other US personnel that have unlawfully killed people) are not subject to reciprocal extradition - goes to show you how skewed the system is.

@ Kent Dych - "@fg - God! Who are you? Regarding MI5 and the net vs the US Government and their connection to and use of ... they, NOT Al Gore :>) invented the net to begin with!"

Someone who knows more about UK Government IT security systems than you !

Try a search for Digital Equipment Corporation / Compaq Computer Security Extensions for Microsoft NT , which were written in the UK, specifically for the UK Ministry of Defence, and which would have prevented Gary and countless others from accessing their systems, even if they had been so stupid as to have left the default Local Admin password (blank) and to have no internet firewall, which is what the equivalent US Military systems suffered from at the same time.

@chris response on point system - the US federal system's sentencing guidelines begin with a range based on the offense and then can add or detract "points" or levels to the offense based on other factors. Purjury for example or obstruction of justice charges carry a 2-point increase in the scale of the offense. It's very different that most justice systems but it is a simple table with modifiers.

just because you don't understand a system completely doesn't mean the system itself is faulty.

@ N.I - there are plenty of laws which you could be tried under here in the UK in your strawman scenario.

Depending on your motive, you could be facing life imprisonment for murder or terrorism offences, even if nobody dies.

You could even face 7 years in prison under the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, for just creating the impression, in the mind of anyone at all, elsewhere in the entire world, that what you had sent in the post contained a poisonous or noxious substance. Noxious substance being defied as a) anything natural or b) anything man made i.e. all known matter in the entire universe.

Extradition does not apply to all crimes, especially if they are judged to be too minor e.g. less than 1 year in prison for a first time offender.

Gary's alleged offences are nowhere near as serious as the prison terms he is being threatened with in the USA, which far exceed those given to murderers or terrorists here in the UK or in Europe.

There are many countries e.g. Russia or Japan, which refuse to extradite their citizens to face any foreign courts at all, even on murder or terrorism charges. They usually try such cases at home under their own laws.

Similarly the US refuses to recognise the International Court in the Hague, in case their military personnel are charged (fairly or unfairly) with war crimes in other countries.

Nice to know that the US prosecuting authorities and courts consider the assault/murder of detainees at Abu Ghraib by US soldiers (in which the most serious sentence passed was 10 years; the next most serious was 7 years, of which only three was actually served) to be a more serious crime than the one Gary McKinnon allegedly carried out here. What a joke. Also, when requests are made by European powers such as Italy and Germany to extradite US government employees accused of kidnapping European citizens in 'extraordinary renditions', this is dismissed by the US authorities as a threat to (their) national security?

Hopefully some day soon we'll wake up and stop co-operating with these people that are so over-zealous at prosecuting others, yet so unwilling to reciprocate and deal with the bad apples within their own orchard.

I write from Venezuela, alone to tell them that the one is one of of many heroes of our time since is to be it to be able to make what the one makes with computer systems (standing out that it is not anything bad). To judge it for accesar to the bad systems of protection of the organisms but important of United States?, is it absurd, would they should of but well to thank him, because thanks to this "do they know that they have low defenses in their systems." Imagine Gary's gift in bad hands, there if that would be in true problems. Do wonder, How many times there will be accesado?, and doesn't the simple one made of having entered before attack imply him, because already as you they have said it, "access before and after the incident", do wonder, because he/she would enter later if "according to you" the one something had to see.

It is to begin to think detailedly and not to be allowed to take and to accuse somebody for all those incidents that have happened in USA. Don't use it to justify all those facts, think that he/she is also a human being that was simply in the suitable moment.

escribo desde Venezuela, solo para decirles que el es uno de de muchos heroes de nuestra epoca ya que hay que serlo para poder hacer lo que el hace con sistemas informaticos (resaltando que no es nada malo). Juzgarlo por accesar a los malos sistemas de proteccion de los organismos mas importantes de Estados Unidos?, es absurdo, deberian de mas bien agradecerle, porque gracias a esto "saben que tienen defensas bajas en sus sistemas". Imaginense el don de Gary en malas manos, alli si que estarian en verdaderos problemas. Preguntense, ¿Cuantas veces habra accesado?, y el simple hecho de haber entrado antes de atentado no le implica, porque ya como ustedes lo han dicho, "acceso antes y despues del incidente", preguntense, porque entraria despues si "segun ustedes" el tuvo algo que ver.

Es para ponerse a pensar detalladamente y no dejarse llevar y culpar a alguien por todos esos incidentes que han ocurrido en EEUU. No lo usen por justificar todos esos hechos, piensen que tambien es un ser humano que simplemente estuvo en el momento indicado.

I was saddened to hear Gary has lost his appeal. After the disparity offered him in the plea bargain, it is upsetting to see American prosecutors throwing the book at a man simply because he has exposed a hole in technological defences. And they feel silly. How very immature.

Perhaps they should employ him instead, though I'm sure Gary would be less than enthusiastic about having the US amred forces as his boss. Particularly as they're so useless.

To all those who are crowing that hackneyed 'if you can't do the time...' adage, remember this. Gary knows admits logging on to the computers, what is objectionable is the length of time prosecutors have taken, the brutish way which they have tried to get him to abandon his legal rights and the wildy stupid suggestion he is, in some way, a terrorist.

Good luck in the ECHR Gary, Let's hope they have more common sense and fairness in Strasbourg.
Thinking of you.

Wow, lots of emotion here! BTW I am American (Texan)
Not a surprise that his appeal was turned down. Poor Gary is caught up in serious political exchanges. Fair trial or process is out the window at this point. Run Gary Run!
Yes, he has been charged with a crime and yes, it was committed on US soil despite where he was sitting at the time. Consider the comments on G. Bush and where he sits.
Damages- Way out of line. Exagerated to get what they want. Not a terrorist but is he a spy?? And if so.. for who? The Kling-ons!
Most importantly though under UK and US justice systems is the process. We can not let our courts violate rights. This point is actually more important then the crime itself. It is the UK court and government's job to see to it that foreign systems do NOT violate those rights and they have sadly failed.
US prosicutors are political and can be real sharks (no disrespect for sharks intended)but the US courts are based on rights of the accused and are just most of the time.
Final Point: US computor systems are wide open but I still have to remove my shoes at the airport for national security!
Gary: Best of luck and hang in there!

My point has been misinterpreted totally.

While I did mention Bush, he and his actions do constitute the essence of my argument.

The USA has suspended Habeas Corpus which is the bedrock of the entire judicial process.

The US legal system is now not worth a penny - it should simply be disregarded.

It is not about Bush, it is about the USA, and I state here emphatically that as a standing criminal regime with obvious contempt for international law except when it suits them - it is ludicrous and preposterous to extradite anyone to the USA for any reason whatsoever.

One here said that 'some aspects of the US government are running amuck' and I can only re-read that and smile in disbelief.

The United States has no credibility whatsoever at present and I could not care less about their national security.

I am far more concerned for the national security of Iraq and Afghanistan where a million innocents lay dead.

When I say the laws of a criminal regime are moot - I mean absolutely worthless - as in void of value or meaning.

Simple and irrefutable linear thinking leads one to the obvious conclusion - the USA has no business charging him with anything - whether he did something or not is now incidental.

The United States of America has forfeited any claim whatsoever to international credibility and that these 'lords' would have a British national sent there is utterly reprehensible.

I suggest they immediately pardon him, return his PC and give him free reign to hacking NASA etc - you never know : he may discover something interesting for us all to enjoy.

Everyone, let's all take a deep breath. A lot of you responded to my comment in irrational fashion. First I am not lawyer. I am not privy to the nuances of international law.
First what does the internment camp in Cuba have to due with this gentleman. They were intered as "enemy combatants". They were arrested on the battlefield fighting our soldiers. Icluding I might add soldiers from the U.K. Mr McKennon will be tried in a civilian court in Virginia in the United States. Not a military tribunal like what will take place for those residents of Guantanamo Bay.
Second, the DOD of the United States suffers upwards of 34,000 attacks every day against it's computers. One get's thru, and you blame the victim?
Thirdly, if we allow Mr Mckinnon to be tried in the U.K. Does that mean any American accused of a crime against the U.K. will be tried in the U.S. that makes a lot of sence.
Lastly, just a thought. When will European's realize that 68 million American's voted for George Bush. If you hate G. Bush, by extension you have a problem with all American's. You can seperate the two....

It's quite obviously a chicken and egg situation. If it wasn't for them damn triffids.

@ Bill Conlon - it does not have to Guantanamo bay , per se.

Remember that Gary is accused of causing "damage" to the US Military.

None of the Moslem British citizens who were held for years without trial at Guantanamo bay were ever accused of doing as much as that.

When specifically asked whether or not Gary could face a Military Tribunal under Military Order No. 1, the US authorities could only produce an unsigned diplomatic note from the US Embassy saying that they hoped that this was so.

Too be fair to them, the convention is for all Diplomatic Notes between all Governments to be unsigned, but that is literally not worth the paper it is printed on as a guarantee.

The US authorities have admitted that such a Note has no power to bind the US President, should he choose to rubber stamp a declaration that Gary is to be treated as an "enemy combatant".

That is where the Guantanamo Bay references come into play, but it might end up as Special Treatment in another prison, with similar, unfair, restrictions on choice of lawyers etc.

Even though Gary has been on bail for years here in the UK, and not tried to flee from justice (where would he go ?) , the fact that he has exercised his legal right to oppose extradition to the USA, means that the bureaucracy will treat him as a flight risk, and he will be incarcerated in a US prison awaiting trial, without bail.

You only have to look through the heated comments on this blog, to see the hatred which will be directed against him as a foreigner, for having dared to "damage" the US military, once he is inside a US prison.

The above post says it all.

Thanks for your inspired input "Disgusted American"


A reminder to those of you who make threats of violence or who inflict their prison rape fantasies etc. on this blog.

This is not tolerated here, and we will formally complain to your ISP or Employers, for breaking their Acceptable Use Policies.

Some of the threats constitute possible extraditable offences to the United Kingdom, which would be ironic.

What did he expect would happen when he broke in to
90 computer networks at the Department of Defense while the U.S. is it war?

Gary broke multiple U.S. laws and caused significant damage. He deserves whatever punishment he gets.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

"American Constitution". Give me a break. I cannot believe that there are still some Americans here who truly believe in their wonderful constitution and trust their oh-so-wonderful government with a fair trial.

You cannot honestly believe that Gary will get a fair trial in the US! Bush is no better than Hitler except that this time it is not against the Jews but against the Moslems and it is not the Reichstag that he burned down but the Twin Towers.

With a terrorist president like this in a supposed "free" country do you really think he will get a fair trial?

Maybe its time to swollow the red pill, and not the blue!

Best of luck Gary if there is anything you or your family need, please call!

Being an American citizen, I would say NO do not extradite this guy to the US. Why? The US Justice System is VERY CORRUPT and he would not get a fair trial, he will get what our Gov says, thats it plain and simple.

Gary....stop being a big girls blouse!...youve done the go do the time little boy!
Searching for UFO!...MY ARSE!
probably a memember of or some other leftie club is much nearer the truth.
You got caught with your trousers do us all a favour...and go get your just deserts!
Ps 3-4 years sounds better than 60....
pps you know why you havent got a leg to stand on...coz like a fool...youve admitted your guilt right from the start!


- You are going to pay for your crimes. You did commit crimes and YOU KNEW you were committing them. You also knew the consequences.

- You thought you were smart Gary. You thought you wouldnt get caught. How would you feel Gary if you had a business and someone mucked up your machines ?

- See you in jail Gary. You were not as smart as you thought. Now your begging for help.


the weak UK lawlords decided that the europeans should make the call. its unlikely they will send him to 60 years of horror.

He did cause damage, and says so in an interview:

He strenuously denies the justice department's charge that he caused the "US military district of Washington" to become "inoperable". Well, once, he admits, but only once, he inadvertently pressed the wrong button and may have deleted some government files.

"What did you do then?"

"I thought, 'Ooh, bloody hell,' " he says. "And that's when I stopped for a while. And then my friend told me about Darpa. And so I started again."

I will try and be as eloquent as possible to voice my opinion in this matter. I have , both currently and in my past immense ties to both England and the United States. First and foremost I do NOT like the current US Administration and I am NOT Pro-Iraq or even Pro-Bush. I do however think this is perfectly ok and justifiable. I don’t know if this will even be posted and I am sure it will draw considerable backlash, but I do know that if a Frenchman had hacked into MI-6 or the British Royal Marines Top-Secret Computer system and he was not able to be tried in a British Court system there would be cries from everyone in the UK. I hope this post is taken for what it really is meant to be. An educated, unbiased, and fully thought out opposition to the cause you are supporting.


Please supply your (presumably internet) source.


Gary's alleged offences are nowhere near as serious as the prison terms he is being threatened with in the USA, which far exceed those given to murderers or terrorists here in the UK or in Europe.
Good point

So now an intelligent but foolish person hacks into their network and looks around for UFO evindence or whatever (it doesnt mather), he was no member of a terrorist organisation or spy. By doing so he helped to expose a lack of security. Do you all think it would be better if Gary never did it, the us kept the illusion of security, and a huge nation with a plan hacked into the network as easy as Gary did. But doing way more damage , stealing the specific files, plans for perhaps a military operation...

In a way Gary helped to improve the security of the US citizens and now they portrait him as an evil thief with bad intentions! Thats BS!

Hence the name "hacker" implies someone who breaks through into other people's computers without the knowledge of those people, is certainly a thief. It also depends on the motive of the hacker. This what Gary Mckinnon has done, for me is a big discovery and should be put into record book. The United States should thank him for letting them know that their security systems are not so secure as they claim it to be.Imagined if this hacker happens to have been an Islamic terrorist,(I mean no harm about Islam), it should have been the greatest problem for the United States. the internet is like Space for Gary, the computer is his rocket and he is the astronaut. he is doing his exploration and finds out that there are some systems which are not secure. He should be thanked for this,and not to be tried in any court. Remember, Gary knows where the leakages are with the US computer systems. Let him go or ask him to work with the US defense security. He can be of great us to the US. Gary should not be tried in the US.

I'm a US system, and even I say that US legal system is not based on justice and morality.

I thought what Gary did was wrong,but I think that the effort that the my country is putting into such an infraction is extraordinary and misplaced.

This is not about whether Gary did it or not. It's about a nation that's run amok, flinging its weapons about like they were toys and bullying the rest of the world.

It's a nation that has little idea of justice, and certainly NO idea of the punishment fitting the crime.

Gary risks 60 years in gaol. (British spelling). This is more than outrageous, but typical of a society that ignores the Geneva Conventions, uses torture on a regular basis, bombs innocent civilians equally regularly, but never ceases to boast about its humanity.

60 years? Think about it! It's completely outrageous. What will Radovan Karadjic get? 25? For being responsible for the killing of thousands and the murderous seige of Sarajevo! 60 years for Gary?

That, my friends, is European justice compared to the US version. If the American Government can't build its websites properly, it shouldn't be on the Internet.

If the USA had some common sense they would hire Gary to find and plug the holes in there leaky government systems.
For every hacker that gets caught, there are 8000 more black hats in China trying to subvert the same systems and to cause human and monetary damage. Computers are only as weak as the people that control them. This whole thing has left quite a few red faced US departments, and gary may unfortunately become a victim of a corrupt US justice system. Its terrible that the UK bows to the USA with so little pressure. I hope people will continue to support his fight and that it will be taken to europe. Mitnick got 4.5 years pre trial because he embaressed alot of major computer companies. which further goes to show the USs complete inability to deal with these matters properly
Good luck Gary in your fight. People wont give up

ok what gary did was wrong but remember why did he do it , for over 50 yrs now the government has been lying to us all regarding ufo's , advanced technology etc.... , with re-engineered ufo technology we would advance rapidly , vehicles would'nt need roads anymore , every household would have unlimited energy to power there homes many life times over and the list of possibilitys are endless .

the truth is MONEY and POWER is restricting our evolution .

the government will always deny ufo's no matter how much proof you got and even if you did it would be taken away from you and you would have to agree to a silence or otherwise you go to prison .

i hope the balance of powers change hands in 2012 .

the american goverment have been hacking everybody for years .and now thay got hit thay want to imprison him why dont thay give him a job this would be better

He committed a crime on multiple levels. I have been waiting for this decision for Gary to be brought over here. Sadly, his crime does not match the "network security" guru who designed sasser. Many people that are into "network security" are interested in this and his travel over here will worry many because cyber crimes and the penalty for cyber crimes is going up all over the world. The United States actually has one of the lightest cyber crimes penalty systems in the world.

I have been expecting Gary and Dan Egerstad to end up like Dmitry Sklyarov and Mr. Maddoxx be thrown into federal prison / jail for some time. The gravity of his crimes compared to dan and dmitry are huge he should be in jail for the an easy 10 or 20 years of his life and be put on the "ooma" list

Good!! he deserves to go on trial you do the crime you do the time.He is lying and makes a pathetic excuse he's looking for put our servicemen and women and national security at risk and he could even help terrorist.Hope he gets life.

I think the real reason Gary fears going to a jail in the US, is that he fears that he'll get raped by a redneck who is very protective about his country, eh? Am I right?

Well, there's nothing to worry about. He won't get raped by a redneck. He will most likely get raped by a 7 feet tall black guy named "Bubba". And he will be kind enough to name Gary "my little Cockney biotch". So nothing to worry about.

And the whole "I'm looking for Aliens" argument... ph-lease. First, they don't have a single thing on Aliens on a single military computer in the US. It's all on PAPER. Every file is on a real folder and on a real piece of paper. That way nothing gets read unless you're actually holding those X-files in your own hands. They're not stupid enough to put all that info from the "Area 51" era on a damn computer.

And I was kidding on the rape part... but he should've known that getting into US Government computers would land him in jail.

To say that the United States has one of the lightest cyber crime penalty systems in the world is utter rubbish as any sensible person clearly knows. US sentences for many non violent crimes, including computer crimes are draconian in the extreme.

The U.S staff responsible for the extremely lax security are the ones that should be prosecuted to the max. Only they are responsible for putting the world at risk and fortunately Gary McKinnon alerted them in time to prevent this happening and even "set" passwords for them as they had none(as reported in BBC Five Live today) plus they had no firewalls!!!!

They didn't catch all the other hackers from all over the world that had invaded their systems, including China apparently. So they take a little guy with a dial up computer and try to pretend it's the biggest hack of all time, rather than being honest and saying, Gary McKinnon was the only one they caught because he didn't try to cover his tracks and even left his girlfriends email address behind.

The American people should prosecute the military staff responsible for computer security and they should bring this dangerous regime to task.

Gary! Don't look behind the curtain!
Let's look at this for a moment. This 'offense' by a British (not a 'Mercan) private citizen (not military combatant) has cost us yanks hundreds of thousands of dollars *gasp*. Mind you, this is the same bloated gov't that lets contractors charge approx. $24,897 per toilet. And they pay it!(I won't even mention the cost for the illegal Iraq war, as it is mind boggling.) The fact is one man outsmarted the US brass, and they plan on roasting him on a spit. This, of course, is nothing new. But extradition? For a crime NOT committed on US soil? (He wasn't at the US Embassy, was he?) Ludicrous. And the previous analogy of unlawful entry is absurd. Tresspassing/unlawful entry is a crime, yes. A physical crime. This is nothing like that. It's more like someone finding a door that is not only unlocked, but wide open, and taking pictures of the furniture inside-from across the street! Is it an invasion of privacy? Maybe. Is it espionage? As Gary was reportedly acting alone, and not as an agent of another nation/industry, I don't think it can be construed as such. Mr. McKinnon acted out of his own curiosity and exposed incompetence on the part of the US. (Who doesn't use a password?) So, did he engage in illegal activity? Yes. Unauthorized viewing of secured documents is contrary to law. But that is nowhere near as serious an offence as 'leaving the door open' for the documents to be viewed in the first place. Those responsible for the lapse in security should be held just as accountable, if not subject to grater penal measures. Of course, that will never happen. Unfortunately for Gary, he faces the wrath of a feckless immoral behemoth the world has not seen the likes of since Roman times. Pray for Gary, and for our children! It is they that will inherit this already screwed up world which we keep pushing toward the edge of the abyss.

If this guy is that good then give him a job. Pay him to find these loopholes and backdoors.

I see we have more male rape fantasists on the Free Gary website.

Plus lots of looonie tunes sickos that are wheeled out on behalf of the even loopier regime they represent.

Mr McKinnon, the defendant, without prior authorisation, entered a computer system, located in the United States of America, with the intention of obtaining information that was not intended for Mr McKinnon's usage. This information was then taken. Furthermore, damage was done to these computers, by the defendant.

Section 635:1:1 of Chapter 635 of Title 62, of US Criminal Code states that a person is guilty of burglary if he enters a building or occupied structure, or separately secured or occupied section thereof, with purpose to commit a crime therein. (

It was held in R v Governor of Brixton Prison and Another, Ex parte Levin, “Criminal evidence rules apply to extradition”, 11 March 1996, The Times, that “a ...virtually instantaneous instruction intended to take effect where the computer was situated, it seemed artificial to regard the insertion of an instruction on to the disk as having been done only at the remote place where the keyboard was situated. The fact that the applicant was physically in Russia was of far less significance than the fact that he was looking at and operating on magnetic disks located in the US.”

The defendant, placed a virtually instantaneous instruction intended to take effect where the computer was situated, the United States of America, and it is artificial to assume that this instruction took place in the United Kingdom, but has to be regarded as having occured at the remote taken place where the computer was situated, and the fact that the defendant was physically in the United Kingdom at the time of said instruction, is irrelevant. The defendant knowingly, entered secured section of a structure, with the intention to retrieve data from computer systems not owned by the defendant.

As a result, the defendant was in breach of the United States Federal Law, and as the crime was committed in the United States of America, the defendant should stand to face his accusers in the jurisdiction where the crime was committed. Therefore, the defendant has to be extradicted, and UK law is currently wholly inadequate to try a person guilty of a crime not committed in the UK jurisdiction.

Thus, Mr McKinnon broke the law, knowingly and with intent to do this, not once, but on several occassions and as such, he broke the law and therefore needs to face trial. The old adage holds true... if you are willing to commit the crime then you ought to be willing to do the time.

It is acknowledged that I stand by my noble colleagues, and affirm the defendants extradiction to the United States of America to stand trial.

NOTE: To all those wishing for Mr McKinnon to win his appeal... let me pose to you this question... If your home was entered, without your permission, and items taken from your home, by some foreign person, who then retreated to proposed safety of their jurisdiction, where would you have that be tried for the crime committed? I would suggest that you would want to them tried in your jurisdiction. So I put it to you, then, this is the USA is doing and wanting.

I would think what a nerd I was not to have locked my doors and WINDOWS for several years and I'd thank God for the intruder that alerted me before a terrorist or arsonist walked in and demolished not only my home but possibly the entire planet, as weapons of mass destruction are kept by that home owner.

Mr. McKinnon did not steal passwords, there were NONE to steal and he even put in passwords to make the US systems more secure (as stated on BBC five live)

If the U.K. wanted to extradite a USA citizen to be tried in the UK would they allow it??

I am boycotting everything from the USA and cancelling my vacation there.

I had hoped when Tony Blair stepped down that the UK was no longer "the poodle" of the USA

In answer to JAMES: ( James on July 30, 2008 12:29 PM)
“Following your logic, YOU should be prosecuted by the legal system for being negligent and leaving your door unlocked.”
This sour judgement spouts from a blinkered, bitter unworldly idiot . . . leaving my door unlocked is in no way going to effect the rest of the world . . . what a dick ! ! !
James you should be a politician.

He committed his crime in the UK and therefore should be tried in the UK.

A person should only be extradited if he has already committed a crime on US soil or was planning to commit a crime such as a terrorist attack. A person should then only be extradited if he is afforded the same rights he is provided with in his own country and the likely sentence is not disproportionate to the crime committed.

Wil for our cyber criminal system is very light compared to other places where you get "banned" from seeing a computer and some jail time (aka japan and china and possible worse penalties which border on just weird personal overseers). People who have been caught s.shaving off paypal and ebay get probation which is silly someone who hacked into a bank gets a year or two in "white collar crime" jail over here.

The logic well since he was the only one to not cover his digital footprints means we should say well China got in and maybe other people but since we caught you and you admitted to it, clearly we should let you go. What type of sense does that make? He should be charged for esponiage and other federal crimes.

The only sad thing about this is when he gets thrown into prison his company will be rapist and murderers either way as a network security analyst this case brings a lot of meaning to world. Because they have been working on "cyber crimes against humanity" after sasser but America never saw it through. But it is coming and many want this too show that these crimes are serious as well. He will be an example which has been needed for sometime for foreign and domestic "programmers" everywhere

Wil for our cyber criminal system is very light compared to other places where you get "banned" from seeing a computer and some jail time (aka japan and china and possible worse penalties which border on just weird personal overseers). People who have been caught s.shaving off paypal and ebay get probation which is silly someone who hacked into a bank gets a year or two in "white collar crime" jail over here.

The logic well since he was the only one to not cover his digital footprints means we should say well China got in and maybe other people but since we caught you and you admitted to it, clearly we should let you go. What type of sense does that make? He should be charged for esponiage and other federal crimes.

The only sad thing about this is when he gets thrown into prison his company will be rapist and murderers either way as a network security analyst this case brings a lot of meaning to world. Because they have been working on "cyber crimes against humanity" after sasser but America never saw it through. But it is coming and many want this too show that these crimes are serious as well. He will be an example which has been needed for sometime for foreign and domestic "programmers" everywhere

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

See ya soon on this side of the pond. May justice be swift and merciful.

I hope ECHR, at least, can preserve decency in Human Rights issues.

This judgement is totally disproportionate in light of the evidences and facts.

Who is the next?

Good Luck Garry, i wish justice prevails for,

Its the guys who set up the "secure" system that should be tried not Gary. He will not get justice from the world's number 1 bully the USA.

Free Gary now


Sound like European justice sucks if Karadzic gets 25 years.

However was wondering about my source for the quote, here ya go:

By dave d on July 30, 2008 6:31 PM

Good!! he deserves to go on trial you do the crime you do the time.He is lying and makes a pathetic excuse he's looking for put our servicemen and women and national security at risk and he could even help terrorist.Hope he gets life.

Game, set and match, typical American view guilty before proven anything. Your top brass have already told him what he has to do in order to get 4-10 years or 80+ years. Your justice system is systematically sick and your politicians take advantage of it's peoples' gullibility. Absolutely the reason he should not stand trial when the verdict is a foregone conclusion. Fair trial? America? George Bush? Don't make me laugh.

68 million out of 285 million voted for Bush in the last flawed election. 217 million didn't, go figure.

@ Kent Dyche - luckily for you your latest comment got caught in the spam filters, otherwise you would have laid yourself open to a libel suit for your false accusations.

You have also broken your ISP's Acceptable Use Policy, and a formal complaint will be sent.

Give us the U.S soldier whose bullet killed ITN Journalist Terry Lloyd.
Then you may have Gary McKinnon

@ "a real patriot" - your pseudonym is an obvious misnomer, and your death threats against the US police, the US Government and the bomb threat against the UK House of Lords is illegal - you could be facing extradition to the UK and 7 years in prison.

Your comment certainly breaks the Acceptable Use policy of your ISP - a formal complaint is on its way.

You are not supporting Gary's cause by uttering such threats.

as somone elce said hes dident hack minto the network. he just logged on, they had no protetion to hack. so no laws were brocken, so its like putting me in prission for logging in-to my own pc or a friends pc.

this is bull! england is the blood line of america its about time they remember it. i cant stand the tension between the two. britain and america should stick together because when the shit its the fan we will need too like we have before cause its just a battle of childish power. we should be 1 and there should be no reason for him to go there. and as for the information cover there must be a logical reason cause if they have info that is frightening they wont want people to freak. so u got to think both ways. but some1 shouldn't be sent to jail forbeing be curious about a subject so amazin its human nature.its quite possible for life to be out there dont think its wacky thats just saying our planet is wacky but we live here inmasses and space is massive with million of solar systems like our so chances are pretty good and they could more advanced than us cause they might have lived with no natural disasters and wipeouts.
americans and british live together and they die together forever! no your honour causeif u lose it u lose everything! he should stay.

Just because judges rule against you doesn't mean they're pawns of some dark UK/US conspiracy culture. They've got to rule against someone - they can't call it a draw.

This is plainly absurd. Mr McKinnon has been on bail for 6 & 1/2 years, suffering psyscological distress and being barred from proper employment by his bail conditions. That is a sentence, and he has served it. He will not re-offend.
I see no public interest in allowing the Americans to subject him to the additional brutality of their flawed legal system, and frankly appalling prisons.
I think justice has been sufficiently satisified. The matter should be closed.
To his lawyers: I should mention that there is a reasonable human-rights case to be made on the dual basis of lack of due process, and the physical danger to Mr McKinnin`s well-being in an American prison.

This result today angers me so much. I have only heard of this recently thanks to the interview on kerrang radio. It along with other things reduce everyone's faith in the justice system. . The government allows people who carry knives and kill people and cause havok in society to get away with a short scentance. Yet Gary who just logged onto a government computer network, that contains information on more personal stuff than he looked into, that some lazy admin hadn't bothered to set a proper encrypted password on, gets extrodited to the US for something he did in England. I don't know what the people at the pentagon were thinking leaving a network open like that. imagine if it wasn't Gary but a terrorist. The US would be f*cked All we can hope for is that the ECHR will back him and put a stop to this silly feud and give him a fair trial in ENGLAND. I may not be the smartest understanding thi at an age of 16 but it really angers me to see this happen. Its so dispicable and Gordon bloody brown does jack sh*t to help his own citizens. Eventually the US will be able to extrodite anyone they feel like for something as little as music pirating. I just hope this works out well. All my best to Gary and his family

@CenTexKev: if my grasp of intellectual property history is shaky, then please feel free to provide references showing why I am wrong - I may well be, and if so I apologise. At any rate, Bill Gates seemed to think it was OK to copy computer software back in the early 80s - perhaps you should head out to Redmond and perform a citizen's arrest. Where did I advocate anything illegal? The answer is that I did not. You are failing to read or understand the words on the screen in the same way as you have failed to understand McKinnon's situation and history. I am not condoning what he did; rather, you are condoning and encouraging a gross miscarriage of justice due to your misplaced feelings of patriotism.

You failed to address the rest of my post which actually speaks to the issue at hand; you rail against those who believe that wishful thinking can supercede the law, and yet you still fail to understand that breaking a US law in the UK is not in itself a crime. There may be an equivalent crime in the UK (indeed, as fg has pointed out McKinnon most likely contravened relevant UK legislation from 1990), but the law he has likely broken is UK law, not US law. He was in London (as in London, England) when he committed these acts. Please find someone with an atlas (your local elementary school library will have several) and review what you find therein.

As for the suitability of the mooted punishment: even if US law did apply (and remember, it doesn't - he has to be extradited before the US can try him)... 70 years? Seventy? Even 7? Some murderers (as in "someone who has committed murder") are out in less. Is that OK with you, "CenTexKev"?

With your wilful ignorance of facts, your inability to respond proportionately and the word Tex in your handle, I can only assume that you are in fact from Connecticut. You will be moving house on January 20 next year, and even though I disagree with you on all points, it has been an honour debating with you, Sir.

ECHR - the clue's in the name. Must we lose all hope in our institutions, or can justice yet prevail?

Ahhh but let's think conspiracy theories here. The UK is, as usual following the USA on everything their honorable president (deliberate lower case p, it's all he deserves) and associated cronies are doing. Making fear the main factor in people, warning them of imminent attacks in order to force the public into submission and agree to draconian new laws. It started in the USA folks and has seaped down in a rather large way into the UK. 42 day detention, etc. More and more loss of democracy and freedom. Perhaps this would be a good test case for the UK Government to see how far they can go with their next civil rights/freedom bills. So yes it'll be political, more loss of freedom and we'll just shrug our shoulders and get on with it.

Yes? No?

I miss actitudes (even fictional) like Hugh Grant in Love actually with the president of the usa scene!

Cheseaaaaaaaaaaa !!!

I have been working in IT for the best part of 18 years and a computer enthusiast for a decade before that and i totally support Adam's informed, firm and eloquent appraisal of the situation - except the bit about Connecticut because i am fairly ignorant of US geography and it sounded unfairly insulting.

The House of Lords has done their work, as Mr. McKinnon took it upon himself, to do his. To hack into the US Government and Military's data base, because he allegedly was just snooping and looking for Alien existance is beyond belief. His actions are criminal in America and England, to say nothing of the greater part of civilized societies worldwide. He put many American and allied military personnel at risk. From the postings I noted there seems to be a dislike for we Americans. I don't care much for you Pinko-Commie-Bedwetting Social Misfits! We have them as well, your type is a blemish in the US as you are in the UK. I doubt your family would be very proud of your stated feelings. My family left England in the 1600's, we engaged in conflicts against the UK in the 1770's and 1812 we then fought side by side, together in every conflict since, as allies. I've always been proud of that lineage, as I've personally stood side by side with UK's Military Forces while serving America, for over twenty years. I have a multitude of great friends in the UK, McKinnon and his kind are the type that cry the loudest for unequal special treatment. These social crybabies represent the worst, of any nationality.

"68 million out of 285 million voted for Bush in the last flawed election. 217 million didn't, go figure."

Uh... 285 million? The number of registered voters in the US is around 136 million.

hey anyway who invented the fuckin magna carta which the whole fuckin world uses as a justice system. fucking cunts.yes americans have the right punish him but he doesn't need go to american prison or to america. oh and all u small minded wankers from america(not literally) who have no history intelligence at all sayin oh america were the best fuck the tiny island over the sea thinkin that britains up the arse of america if it wasnt for english presence there non of u would be there. this so called tiny island is the strongest country in history with the british empire despite its size so i think that deserves a bit of respect considering all the larger countrys it stop rambleing and trying to size up with us coz that shouldn,t be happening especially the way things are goin with other countrys. we let shitty squabbles like this happen then shit gonna happen for both of us. unfourtunatly old memories still burn in other countrys and they r pissed. war unfourtunatly will never untill we all(the world) put the past behind and start a fresh because just as powers rise no matter strong they fall remember it. ur never safe just cause ur in a powerfull so get ur arse out ur head and use it cause thats what my country doin at the moment fuckin fannying about.

It is profoundly sad both to hear this news and see how little empathy so many have for Gary.

The most arrogant and ignorant posts are from Americans and that is no surprise. Thank you to those Americans who have shown sense here.

Gary used a script to search for default passwords as I understand it? If so that is about as difficult and complex as making instant coffee.

Nothing of value would ever be under a default password - absolutely no way known.

NASA has public and open FTP servers for all to browse and therein we find personnel employee folders - this I just did, legally and baby simple.

I have no doubt that these folders which are passworded contain many vulnerabilities to 'US National Security' :-) -- No actually you would probably find as 99% of what Gary found was, - a lot of unclassified nonsense.

[..Conceded other people's private nonsense]

This is no better than another US scam in the passing parade and it sickens me to the bone.

Gary has already more than paid for this misdemeanor with years of duress and he deserves his life back.

To Gary , his family, his friends, I extend my heartfelt sympathy and sorrow and I hope so much that the final appeal succeeds.

LL -

@ Stewart M Bestwick

He put many American and allied military personnel at risk

How exactly ?

Even the US Prosecutors claimed that no classified material was lost, and that Gary was not working with anyone else, either criminal, terrorist or foreign intelligence agency.

Surely the people who put US military personnel at risk, were those who were responsible not just for the initial systems configuration error, which can happen on any complicated computer system, but the senior management, both military, civil service and private sector contractors, who failed to detect the problem over several years, or if they did detect it, failed to take the simple, cheap action of actually setting some passwords.

Surely these people are guilty of incompetence, gross dereliction of duty, corruption or actual treason ?

If exist crime must be judged where it happens.
Baltazar Garzón judge of Spain ask to extraditate argentine people charged about human rights violations. They come back to Argentine as Ricardo Cavallo and others. Now is "hijacked" by spaniards
Maria Estela Martinez de Perón former president of argentine who signs law about people extermination.
She must return to Argentine to present facing argentine justice. If MacKinnon enter to computers
these devices was weak in security and USA must claim to British Govt and no other reclamation.
Freedom for Mac Kinnon

stewart m8 i totally agree with u when i say what i say i dont mean all americans i mean the twats u mension i know thier are great americans who pride thier country and honour the alligiance with britain my whole goal is to bring our nations closer. i would be as proud to fight for america as i would britain. and i respect u massivly for be 1 of many to stand for ur country as many would turn a blind eye.

OK good people…and idiots alike

1) Gary McKinnon was a Computer System Administrator who knew exactly what he was doing and not some poor geek who just happened upon a strange computer network.

2) He allegedly broke into the computer network at the Earle Naval Weapons Station, stealing computer passwords, and shutting down the network in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

3) McKinnon was charged in a one-count Indictment returned by a grand jury in Newark with intentional damage to a protected computer and a seven-count Virginia Indictment charges McKinnon for intrusions into 92 computer systems belonging to the U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Department of Defense and NASA and six private companies’ networks, causing approximately $900,000 in damages to computers located in 14 states.

4) McKinnon faces a maximum penalty of five years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine. Not life. IF he had been extradited already and IF he had been found guilty of the charges in 2002 when he had first been charged, he would be out and home by now.
That’s not to say he shouldn’t have his trial, but seeing that he has already admitted his guilt, it is time to get on with it. Despite Indictment, every defendant is presumed innocent, unless and until found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt following a trial at which the defendant has all of the trial rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and federal law

The Indictments charge that on April 7, 2001, McKinnon hacked into the NWS Earle computer network at that time, he is alleged to have installed the software program RemoteAnywhere on the Port Services computer and on other computers connected to the NWS Earle network and through June 21, 2001, McKinnon obtained unauthorized access to the Port Services computer on several occasions via an Internet connection and, through use of the previously-installed RemoteAnywhere software, stole approximately 950 passwords stored on server computers connected to the NWS Earle network.
In addition, on Sept. 23, 2001, McKinnon again broke into the NWS Earle computer network by accessing the previously-installed RemoteAnywhere software and using the stolen passwords, during this intrusion into the network, McKinnon allegedly caused approximately $290,431 in damage to NWS Earle by deleting computer files needed to power up some of the computers on the network, deleting computer logs that documented his intrusion into the network, and compromising the security of the network by leaving it vulnerable to him and other intruders via the RemotelyAnywhere software.

News releases from both districts, as well as the Indictments, are available at the District of New Jersey Public Affairs website,


I am translating with Spanish subtitles a interview to Gary so that Spanish speakers can know Gary's situation and get involved too:

Regards and good luck.

Some Americans think they are owners of the world, and with stupidest excuses (that only convince they self) of protection. they can go into any country and take whatever they want. Because the only correct law is their own law.

More dangers is the thas "intervention politics"
This is the thing that put many American and allied military personnel at risk.

These "war makers" represent the worst, of any nationality.

Tomorrow will be focus on "Latin America". to invade Brazil to take Amazon, etc. Another stupid excuses will be made of course.

Fortunaly there is another type of American more intelligent than that.

What can I say? Another stupid decision by the US military was made as soon as they decided to prosecute him.

They should bloody pay him to tell them how he got into their systems!

@ Logan Starrider - have a look at the Legal Links on the left hand column of this blog for the original allegations.

The amounts of financial damage are exaggerated and would be open to dispute, if Gary's legal team could have cross examined them in a British Court, which is what would have happened under the old UK / US extradition procedures, but which is no longer allowed under the Extradition Act 2003.

Gary has never admitted actual damage, and proving such allegations, beyond all reasonable doubt, given the numbers of other Chinese, Russian and US based intruders into those systems at the same time, is going to be difficult, hence the attempts to get him to plead guilty.

If there are, say, IP address logfiles, and UK ISP witnesses, which show Gary's activity from the United Kingdom, then this is actually UK based evidence, and could quite easily have been produced in a UK Court case here in London.

Who is going to believe logfiles which have not been independently digitally signed against selective editing or tampering ?

In order to install Remotely Anywhere, you need to have complete Administrator rights on a Windows NT computer, so these systems were already vulnerable to anybody else on the internet anyway.
Note also the weasel words about allegedly "stealing" passwords - there are no plaintext passwords available even to an Administrator on a Windows NT system .

"stealing" implies theft and permanent removal of the data, when in reality who ever "stole" them must have simply made a copy of the SAM file, or captured copies of cryptographic hashed credentials, both of which would then require a dictionary attack or lots of brute force to guess actual username and password combinations.

Here's the 2002 US grand jury indictment against Gary.


Please observe how carefully our American friends have blacked out all IP's and other sensitive info.

Now we copy/paste that PDF into MS Word and voila!, it's magic.

All is revealed.

We can now see evry single IP and nothing is blacked out.

e.g. Fort Myer, VA Fort Myer, VA Fort Myer, VA Fort Myer, VA Fort Myer, VA Fort Myer, VA

..and hundreds more.

To all my American buddies, umm, that'd be you Bud, Hank, Laura, Art, and Gomer - I have met smarter thumbtacks..

Toodle pip duckies.

Who is going to believe logfiles which have not been independently digitally signed against selective editing or tampering ?

If there is doubt that an eletronic document can be forged. It can not be used as proof in any tribunal in EU or Latin America.

It's came from latin "in dubius pro reu".

Now.. because he's Self Confesed. They can put anything else in the judgment.

But in the USA is not possible to use a common sense at all. Just have a look in some posts here.

As an american i would like to say that it is ridiculous that gary lost his extradition appeal. How about placing blame where it should be placed? On the network administrators that left the password field blank on machines with access to highly sensitive materal. This country sickens me

You Brits have a short memory. All kinds of unspeakable acts and subversions of justice were committed in your fight against the IRA. Same justifications made then, both admitted and tacit, are being used today.

I am not defending this administration by any means but you might want to look to your own history before claiming the moral high ground.


I think what he did was ethical, he learnt everything by himself, for his whole life he worked on it, and when he DID a hacking, he get's a jail?? above all, had he used the same technique these days, we might have just said he got lucky because it is no more effective... default passwords are nearly non-existent these days.It's not like he didn't confess what he did, yes he did, then why is he being charged?? HE DIDN'T EVEN RELEASE ANYTHING, JUST SAID THAT HE SAW SOMETHING NON-HUMAN, NOW DON'T WE ALL KNOW OF THAT ALREADY, THAT GOVERNMENT MIGHT BE HIDING SOMETHING?? EVERYONE OF US KNOWS THAT MUCH AFTER HAVING WATCHED HOLLYWOOD MOVIES...if he didn't release anything, if his methods are no more capable, then why is such a brilliant guy getting charged with??

I noticed this website was already onto the cut/paste trick after my post, sorry for that.
A blonde moment.

Oh well, I just watched a short videoclip of Gary and he seems a really sweet guy.

I hate the USA, it is so decadent and weird!, but his future does now look bleak :-(

It's so sad that the USA has lied and accused him of all this rubbish, and want to lock him in a cage like an animal.

Another innocent victim of American barbarism and tyranny.

Good luck Gary.

-Barbie and Ken

Which is worse hacking into a computer network or thoughtlesly killing your friends an allies obviously the american government thinks hacking a computer.
Any trial would be a sham, just look at the way the americans push the RICO laws, thier whole justice system is based on people who grass on each other.
I cant understand how you were supposed to cause so much damage to computer systems where you in the office jumping up and down on them, i didnt think so.
The real problem here is our gov. and thier stupidity when making an extradition agreement which works for america but not the other way when we cant even get a pilot to come here to answer questions why he killed our guys.
Face it america nobody trusts you people dont want to help you and your justice system is a joke yet you preach to every other nation about how they run themselves. Your hypocrisy astounds me, from the war on terror, didnt you fund the IRA by the way? Maybe i am lucky i changed my residency to a country who doesnt extradite their citizens because it is against their constitution, does that ring any bells. Try and come and get me. Oh yes at the same time there are record numbers of americans here dodging thier alimony payments is that good behaviour from the saviours of the planet niet i dont think so. America keep goin the way you are going and you fall.

Is there any way we can see the picture of the cigar-shaped craft he took when he was logged onto the NASA website?

They even not have "REAL PROOF" about what he done, because fake log can be done, as well.

American Military had said He's going to fry !
So, proprabily he will not face a fair judgement in US.

If was an american who broken into Iran Network and coulnd face to death penalty, for example. The americans should never extradit their citizens as well, because proprabily it will be unfair judgement.

As a briton, SHAME... as european, HOPE !!


Gary is not a criminal. The American administrators loose.
That's the life. The U.S. "law" should not go out of this country.

Hack the world.

Perhaps the US Government want to beat out of him what he did find out;

Kennedy cover up?
Moonlanding farce?
WMD lies?
Plans to rule the oil rich countries of the Middle East?
Arms sales to South American rebels?
Sponsoring state terrorism around the world?

Who knows eh?

I am shooting the next six shows of my Saturday night TV chat show this week in Bucks, and would love to have one of Gary's family on the show to encourage more people to join this campaign. I will also happily wear a FREE GARY T shirt on the show if someone can get one to me before Friday!

It is lunacy that murderers and knife attackers walk free and yet Gary can be threatened with "up to 60 years detention" and "extradition" for something that was really a unsecure loophole which embarrassed the US Government! The people who run US security should be the ones facing charges for this!!

We have to bring this to the wider public's attention and cause embarrassment to our own governemnt until they are FORCED to step in and take extradition out of the equation.

Ross Hemsworth
Now THAT'S Weird
Saturdays 8 p.m. on Edge Media Television (Sky channel 211)

He commited a serious crime vs the United States and should pay for his own actions in the US. Have fun in jail.

I had not heard anything of Gary's story until yesterday when I heard mention of it on the news, which prompted me to research it further on Google. There have been many comments on this thread which are ignorant and narrow-minded, but also thankfully some rays of intelligence poking through the mire of stupidity that seems to afflict far too many people in society.
One comment I have seen written on numerous forums is that Gary should be offered a job by the US, not treated like a mass murderer or terrorist. This of course would have been the sensible way to deal with all this. But of course it would mean that the Americans acknowledged their massive lack of common sense- which they already had had to do over 9/11- and they're unwilling to admit under the Bush regime that they ever do anything stupid.
I am American by birth but have spent half my life in this country. I am ashamed of both the US and UK for their treatment of this case. I want both Gary and his family and any other sensible Brits reading this to know that not ALL Americans are thick-as-shite white trash ignorant racist rednecks- a few of us higher-thinking specimens do occasionally make our voices heard.
Like so many other people, I will be thinking positive thoughts for this case to be overturned and for it to be finally resolved in the UK. Hopefully the European Court will do as Europe pretty much always does, which is to tell the Americans to piss off and stop thinking they rule the world, and that some kind of proper "justice" can be served for Gary and all those close to him.
Don't let the wankers get you down Gary- people like you are few and far between and you will be remembered in history for the courage of your conviction.
You will be in my thoughts until you get the freedom and humane treatment you deserve.

I hope the US have fixed their systems. I imagine the reprisals are going to be a bitch.

It seems blatantly clear that each one in support of Mr McKinnon, is in support of a criminal.

Mr Richardson wrote on July 30, 2008 "He committed his crime in the UK and therefore should be tried in the UK." This statement either shows wishful thinking, or a lack of understanding of the crime and jurisdiction.

The crime committed was not committed in the UK, but where the remote machine was located. The instructions left were carried out on American soil. Hence the crime was committed in the USA, therefore he needs to stand trial there.

For those mentioning the ECHR and all the other appeals...he should have already gone! The ECHR is not an appeal court as far as I am aware, its a human rights court and in my view, it is not likely to over rule the House of Lords Judgement. If Mr McKinnon truly wanted to do that, it would have been better to go to the ECJ.

America funded the IRA for years and I clearly remember people including children being murdered in the Wood Green IRA bombs in London and the IRA Bombs in Harrods in LOndon and in many others in London and in other areas of the United Kingdom.

America would not extradite those responsible because they supported terrorism and funded IRA terrorists with millions of pounds. They don't give a damn about punishing anyone and happily support terrorism unless they're on the receiving end.

There's the controversial case of US soldiers killing the ITN journalist with so called "Friendly Fire" and last week the US refused to give the names of those responsible and refused to extradite them although they know the names of the soldiers on duty at that time.

So all of those that say the US government are against terrorism should think again; they fund terrorism and protect terrorists and serious criminals when it suits them.

Boycot americans, refuse to serve them in the uk.
refuse to have anything to do with them.

Its simple, stop buying american products (not that they export anything of value anyway)

Refuse to accept their money.

Americans should be treated with the contempt and disgust they only deserve.

Do not support America in any shape or form.
resist and fight them till they can afford it no more.

@ wil - The US government did not fund the IRA, but individual Americans did, and some of their politicians effectively blocked the extradition of IRA terrorist suspects either to the UK or to the Irish Republic.

I just looked up the IRA bomb at Harrods in London where six people were killed and many injured. Details Below:
Warning of the bomb came when a man using an IRA code word[1] telephoned the central London branch of the Samaritans organisation at 12:44. The caller said there were bombs inside and outside Harrods specifying the registration number of the car the device was in, but not its make or colour.[1] Four police officers in a car, a dog handler, and an officer on foot approached the car when the bomb went off.[1] The police car absorbed much of the blast, probably reducing other casualties.[1] Six people were killed, three passers-by (including one citizen of the United States), and three Metropolitan Police officers.[2][3] Those killed were: Philip Geddes (journalist, 24), Kenneth Salvesen (28), Jasmine Cochrane-Patrick (25), Police sergeant Noel Lane (28), and Police constable Jane Arbuthnot (22). Police inspector Stephen Dodd (34) was fatally injured and died 24 December.[2] Police constable Jon Gordon survived, but lost both legs and part of a hand in the blast. The PIRA claimed that the bomb had not been authorised by them.[1]

All funded by the Americans and at least one American was killed in this blast.

America won't sign the one sided extradition treaty because it will not extradite IRA terrorists and murderers. They don't care a toss about terrorism if they fund it, or who is murdered in the UK.

americans will learn like they did in vietnam - the HARD WAY.

how much longer will we tolerate this infantile nation stampting their hoof where they think they can anywhere on the globe.

do not support them.
do not engage with them
isolate them like the scourge they are on the earth.

detest them.
hound them.
make them worthless.

I wont serve them in my store in the uk and as soon as I hear that yank accent they will be escorted off the premises.

that is how americans shoud be delt with from now on.

@ boycot - You are free to boycott whoever you wish, but is it not a trifle hypocritical of you to use US software to access this blog ?

The vast majority of Americans are good people and many of those good people support Gary.

The current US administration is the problem and is making America unpopular throughout the world and the American people are desperately seeking change.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that the current American regime reflects the majority of American people, because it doesn't. Just as our present government and the Law Lords do not reflect the opinion or the feelings of the majority of the British People.

@ DoTheCrimeDoTheTime - there is no point in taking a case to the European Court of Human Rights until all the avenues of your domestic legal system has been exhausted - they have a huge backlog of pending cases.

That does not always, or usually, involve the House of Lords, as you may have been refused leave to appeal to them by a lower Court.

Keep an eye on the Babar Ahmad case, which is currently before the ECHR, on exactly the same possibility of Military Tribunal or Special Justice, and worthless Diplomatic Note promises etc., for a British, London based computer technician who has been held in prison awaiting extradition, rather than being out on bail.

It will have a significant bearing on Gary's case, which also has the extra prosecutorial legal threats aspect as well.

@ boycott / warmongers / bob beater - I am British, not American, and I administer this blog - you are now boycotted !

I think some of the name calling and sweeping hate statements on this forum are a little chirlish. This is about the politics of it all, and in particular the extradition laws. I personally think this is what the whole case and politicisation is down to. I don't think anyone is in doubt as to McKinnons guilt, least of all McKinnon himself.

I think the Brits on here (myself included) are just terribly frustrated how we are treated as unequal partners by the USA Government machine, and not by it's citizens, and sadly this is manifesting itself in petty name calling from people on here that are probably all quite intelligent away from a keyboard.

Many on here are asking the US Govt. why they will not allow the UK to question those concerned in 'friendly fire', the Terry Lloyd case already being ruled unlawful by the British courts. The lack of parity is a huge issue, and should be addressed.

Having spent a year living and working in South Carolina I can certainly vouch for the warmth and affection in which British citizens are held. So it is sad to see the mini war going on here on this forum.

If there was a level of balanced extradition laws between the two countries, and less chest thumping from US officials about what will happen to McKinnon, I don't think anyone would have the problem right now.

As it is I support non extradition of McKinnon based mainly on the fact that we are non equal partners.

Compare Mr. McKinnons' 'escapade' against the U.S. of A's 'great adventure' into Iraq......and it just doesn't stack-up.
Actually and in fact, Mr. McKinnon has done the U.S. a favour - by 'logging on' and gaining access - he demonstrated the weaknesses in their systems. Free gratis. And without threat. Extradite this man? WHAT UTTER NONSENSE!!!! Let's 'extradite' Mr. Bush for crimes against humanity?
Hmmm...........thought that would either 'get a round of applause' or, 'fall on deaf ears!' Let's not take bets on which one it will be............leave Mr. McKinnon alone. C'mon Westminster, wake up and smell the coffee.....there is no harm done here. In fact, someone should employ him - he clearly knows more than all the 'trained' employees in most Government departments put together!!!

Compare this 'alleged' crime to the crime of invading another just doesn't stack-up. Let me suggest that we 'extradite' George Bush for crimes against the Iraqi people and see how we go.......oh yes, and then there is the small matter of Tony Blair. Which 'crime' is the most significant do you suppose?

In fact, I would also suggest that someone ought to EMPLOY Mr. McKinnon in a Goverment position; he clearly knows what he is doing. And has, I think, done the U.S. of A. a great favour - he has demonstrated very effectively, where the weaknesses in their systems are. If he can do it, then someone with a more dubious/evil intent can also 'do it.'

Leave the man alone. What harm has he done? He hasn't bombed the buggery out of your country.........he hasn't starved, maimed, tortured any of your citizens.......historically, Americans are terribly good at doing such things.

The Melaie massacre? Wounded Knee? Nagasaki, Hiroshima.........I am sure there are more 'events' in history that would witness this.

Extradite someone else you silly people and leave this man alone!!!

Have just read some of Boycotts' remarks about Americans.........hey, that's a bit strong n'ces pa?
'Ordinary Americans' are o.k. people - generous, friendly, decent people (as there are everywhere) - sadly, they voted the current administration they should be 'held to account' for political decisions............however, 'ordering them out of your shop/off the premises' - that's a bridge too far mate. IF you don't mind my saying - one Brit. to another.......and lest we forget, Americans sacrificed a great deal ~(their young men) during the Second World War.

Just a thought. I don't subscribe to 'generalisation' - simply doesn't compute.


Once again, take a close look at your own history before claiming moral superiority. I hate what GWB has done to our government and our standing in the world but moral relativism has no place in a legal system.

Many commenters on this site claim Gary shouldn't be held accountable for his admitted crimes because the US government has taken actions they disagree with, right or wrong. That is a thoroughly ridiculous argument and is in contradiction to the principles upon which both English and American law is based.

They are trying to scare Gary with huge numbers so he'll plead guilty. I do feel sorry for him but, really, what did he expect rooting around in defense department computers after 9/11! The whole country was freaked out and paranoid. It was incredibly stupid judgment.

I am an anglophile and hope that relations between us are healed once this President is gone for good!

More terrorism funded by Americans: In addition to the London bombing at Harrods; in 1996 there was the Manchester bombing, this was a bomb attack undertaken by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) in Manchester, England.
206 people were recorded by the ambulance service as having been injured.
Most windows in nearby buildings were blown out. The blast was audible over 8 miles (13 km) away in residential neighbourhoods.

The bomb caused widespread damage, valued by insurers at £411 million, to buildings in the commercial centre of the city.[2]

The Bombing occurred at 11:16 a.m. (GMT) on Saturday 15 June 1996, when the IRA detonated a bomb containing 1500kg (3300 lb) of explosives. It was the largest IRA bomb ever detonated in Great Britain, and the largest bomb to explode in Great Britain since the Second World War and several buildings had to be demolished.

It is true that one of the reasons that America will not sign the one sided extradition treaty is because they would then have to extradite IRA terrorists and possibly US soldiers and they refuse to do this, which effectively means they are supporting terrorism and sheltering known terrorists.
The one sided treaty goes against the American constitution and they will never sign it but the UK government being the fools that they are, let David Blunket sign this so called treaty in secret and have agreed to extradite any UK citizen that America wants without any proof whatsoever having to be shown to a British court.
A one sided treaty (how can there be such a thing)supposedly to be used for real terrorists but so far used only for white collar workers and computer mis-use.

The American government protects IRA terrorists, murderers and criminals when it suits them and that's a fact.

Are there any screenshots, keystroke records or log files that he or his colleagues have posted anywhere to show what exactly he saw?? Or are we simply taking his word for it with in his interviews about the picture of the cigar-shaped craft and his other, more "exotic" claims?

I'd really like to know. Someone please answer!

From Wired magazine:

"McKinnon is a cause célèbre in Britain. Playing on stereotypes, he's persuaded the more gullible sectors of the British press that American spooks want to ship him to Guantanamo, or put him in prison for 60 years. But McKinnon is a petulant child who refused even the mildest sanctions for crimes that he's largely admitted conducting.

According to his lawyers, the United States offered McKinnon a deal of six months to a year in U.S. federal custody, followed by repatriation by the U.K., where he'd be eligible for parole after six months. McKinnon turned it down, then went running to the U.K. courts whining that the big bad Americans were trying to extort him into pleading guilty. You think? That's what a plea bargain is, slick.

And six to 12 months is quite a bargain indeed. It's minimum security camp time: We're talking ping-pong tables and a sunny running track. Now he's looking at the same kind of sentence U.S. hackers get -- measured in years, not months, and based on the financial losses a jury finds him responsible for."

Is Wired an American magazine per chance?

The USA has become the world's bully and the UK is its stooge.(Witness Iraq & Afghanistan)

I will never be convinced that what Gary did was wrong.

In my view there is no need for him to stand trial anywhere.


It is clear you have a deeper understanding than most that comment here. Thank you for your comment.

@ others

I understand that many would prefer that Mr McKinnon should stand trial here for his crime. Which he did, and has appealed against. He was found guilty and sentenced to extradiction. Yet, I have consistently held that if a person commits a crime in another country, that person ought to stay there, face the legal system there, and do the time there. This case is no different.

It is a mere clutching at straws to compare Mr McKinnon's actions to that of terrorism, and to that of the war in Iraq. There are not the same, and one may as compare ants and elephants... there cannot be a result other than that of there is a huge difference.

Instead of viewing this situation through subjective eyes, look at it objectively. If a person of similar status and ability to that of Mr McKinnon, committed the same offences against the British Government, what then would be the cry? To leave them to stand trial in the USA? I would suggest not, that that person should stand trial here in the UK. Similarly, Mr McKinnon, who carried on these crimes between 2001 and 2002 shows an intent to commit these crimes and not merely to show up the poor security of the US computer systems, and it was not merely searching for UFO data, which could have been obtained through a written letter to the various places.

Mr McKinnon committed crimes that he is well aware of, and continued to do so blatantly. The simple fact of leaving his girlfriend's email address on a pc means he wrote some data to a harddrive he had no right be on.

If a person has a home, with all the doors open, the lights on, no security, all the windows open, it is not an open invitation to enter and take or leave items. It is still breaking and entering, it is still a crime prosecutable by law.

@ Greg

Wired Magazine is very accurate, Mr McKinnon turned it down, thinking he would not be extradicted, however, both the UK and USA deem this action as serious and so they want to make an example, and hence Mr McKinnon has become that person. Kevin Mitnick was guilty of similar offences and did time. Gary McKinnon is no different.

Several have said that he ought to help the US government... This is not an unusual deal... as it has previously happened. But each time this came about, the person concerned did their time.

@ Geoff

Whether Wired magazine is US based or not, it is still an authoratitive source. All you are displaying is dislike. Look beyond your emotive content for a moment and evaluate the simple facts.

A crime was committed. Time needs to be done. Mr McKinnon through admittance has stated he committed the crimes, there is also evidence to support it. He needs to do the time. I sympathise his plea, but as a systems administrator, he should have known better.

@ DoTheCrimeDoTheTime

He was found guilty and sentenced to extradiction.

You are misunderstanding the extradition procedure.

Gary was arrested, then released without charge. He has been free on bail to attend the so called "fast track" extradition proceedings, for over six years.

He has neither been charged with, nor tried for, nor convicted, of any crime in the United Kingdom at all !

Hopefully you support the fundamental principles of "innocent until proven guilty, though a fair trial , based on actual evidence not just allegations"

@ Geoff

Whether Wired magazine is US based or not, it is still an authoratitive source. All you are displaying is dislike. Look beyond your emotive content for a moment and evaluate the simple facts.

That is purely in your opinion, not mine. Some people find tabloids a good source of information, others don't. Similarly the BBC or CNN, it's about choice and what the individual decides to digest. People in the US watching CNN are more likely to be swayed by that than people watching the BBC in the UK.

I have a feeling my previous post purely passed you by or you decided it wasn't worthy for your rhetoric. You have your opinion I have mine and if I choose to disagree with yours, that is my prerogative, simple as.

Us law is against human been, money is everything for them.
If anyone hacked into our pc, no one cared and no one would arested.
Thats just us while we don't collect someting that will damage the planet. Were not build for that. The white house must go to hell and bush to the trash can.
(Because) We don't need such a planet.
Theyr job is to kill this planet. That law on there is just made on their own.
"USA loves money, and everything in bewtween will be destroyed". This is happening now (again).

I see written (wikipedia and other websites):
The US estimates claim the costs of tracking and correcting the problems he allegedly caused were around $700,000"

Is that not their own problem???

And somewhere else i read 900000usd for that the computers has been "powered/shut off" (or such alike)??!.

Where are the prooves, and what are the costs??
No proove is no punishment, thats the law here.

USA should be punished and not him. They have the biggest shit mouth you shouldnt listen at.

I hope and pray for this, that one day the white house explodes, Bush dies a hartatack and everyone that would turn this planet into hell get punished from God.
Power to "love and peace".

This is unfair, i cannot sleep with that.
Sorry for my kinda words.


The 700,000 or 900,000 usd is meant to close bugs in the software???!!!

Just because Gary showed the bugs or what??

This is really their own problem.

A lie somewhere?

It seems obvious that the US government are using scare tactics to make up for their blatantly inadequate security measures. They want to make an example of someone who showed up their weaknesses. 60 years is a preposterous sentence.

These actions are nothing to do with justice. Lets hope the International Court of Human Rights has more backbone and sense of Justice than the House of Lords.

Maybe millions of us should hack into the Pentagon so their resources would never be able to handle it and put them in the minority. That would be democracy. For a change.


Wired Magazine is most definitely NOT a tabloid. Try google, its not that hard to find out about.

And to our Belgian friend, thanks for adding zero to the discussion other than ignorant rantings.

As I've said before, and now expand to all Europeans, take a quick stroll through your own recent past before labeling the US the root of all evil. GWB is a buffoon and an embarrassment but that does not make every US institution the same.

Belgium- King Leopold in the Congo anyone? Now that was hell on Earth.

France- You've left a wonderful legacy in Algeria

Germany- 'Nuff said

Etc, etc, etc.

boycots a nobhead im english and pricks like him are gay if ur american and are a good person dont listen too that cunt england america are 1 despite both our wanker goverments

Oh good grief am I getting a sense of deja vous here? Can you please point out where I said Wired magazine (the clue is there somewhere) was a tabloid?

I was making an analogy (look it up in the dictionary).

americans and english are blood brothers fact! lets all remember (british and americans) this is our goverments not our people all the gov cares 4 is money and power our soldiers are fighting together and dying together in honour we should learn not to teach indavidual twats saying bad things cloud that honour. the kinda twats that are sat at home getting mad about press info who proberbaley hate everythin. our brothers are on the battlefield wether the cause is good or bad they are thier because of thier goverments but they r in union as 1 fighting for a reason they do not entirely know. u decide whats more import ur stupid squableing of a small event or the entire history of our union. think! LONG LIVE AMERICANS AND BRITAINS TOGETHER WERE ALL WE'VE GOT!

So it's okay for the US to demand the UK send a citizen that hacked a computer system that should have been made hack proof, but the US cannot send details on the killing by one of their soldiers of a UK reporter?

Basically it's a "special relationship" when it works for the Americans but obviously NOT the other way round.

Tend to agree with the earlier poster on here - funny how the IRA were not really viewed as terrorists in the US...wonder what would happen if the same happened there.

My only hope is that the ordinary citizens in the US get rid of the rubbish they have currently in power and get someone in who doesn't reads childrens books upside down! After voting him in twice I am not hopeful.

To Ross...

If Britain and America are together:

1 - Why are they refusing to help with finding out who was responsible for the killing of a UK reporter by a US soldier?

2 - Why did the Americans fund the IRA to commit bombings in the UK?

Most people don't dishonour our soldiers - they are doing a fantastic job. What they see is an unfair system between 2 countries that are supposed to be working together, which many others on here have pointed out.

Most countries have funded terrorists at some time - and the US has been a big one via the CIA. But how would they react if say Cuba had treated suspects like the US has?

Personally I would like to see Blair and Bush both brought up on war crimes charges and let the evidence prevail either way.

Laws on EE.UU are only for EE.UU. Gary McKinnon don't must pay for Laws from other country. Only must pay for related Laws on UK.

Don't extradite Gary McKinnon !!!

Justice will be thank you.


Solo queremos una cosa, DERECHOS HUMANOS

Los americanos se ventilan los derechos de todo el universo-


Your analogy is way off. Those were military computers with information potentially highly relevant to the safety of the US citizens that were left unprotected by the people responsible for system security. So by their negligence they endangered the very people they are supposed to protect.

So if in your analogy you go to work and leave your door unlocked while your kids are at home, and some pedophile walks in and grabs them, of course he should be punished. And so should you.

We should do the same with US citizens and also hide them on an island to be interrogated later.

My support her but i think that he also have to be juzged and penalized for what he did but not in that contry.

A hairdresser hacking US facilities? how secure they are?


Your analogy is way off. Negligence of military computer systems is not comparable to negligence of your personal belongings. Securing these systems is vital to the safety of the US citizens. The only way your analogy would have worked is, if in it you'd left your kids in the not locked house and some pedophile came to grab them. And in this case, you should be picking up the soap in the prison shower right along with him.

Maybe you should stop trying to excuse a bunch of dimwits who haven't learned how to protect their citizens even though they have known for years how f****d up their computer system security is (think of Matthew Bevan in 1996).

How can someone like this get life imprisoment while rapist and killers get so much less. I give all my support to gary and hope everything works out.

Why don't the court or whatever look at this videos:

The information is everywhere (in different languages), also text based.



Go to hell white house, just pack your bagages. We are not IDIOTS.


You seem to be the one closest to O'l Gary.

Why don't you ask him if using unsecured computers to steal passwords for secured servers is considered breaking in or hacking?

While you are at it ask Gary if intentionally deleting operating system files on a Domain Controller, Backup Domain Controller and Email Servers so that they cannot run or reboot is considered damage.

Then consider these facts and ask yourself if it is worth putting your faith, time and effort to help a lying oxygen thief like Gary avoid justice.

It is not like he is some person who is actually contributing to society. He is an embarrassment to him family and his country. How pathetic can you really be when you use what limited computer skills he does have to hack into computers across the world from his girl friends flat, thus subjecting her to police search and seizure.

This is how he thanks her for supporting his unemployable butt and paying his bills by putting her in such a situation?

His stories about finding proof of UFOs and the secret to anti-gravity is just another lie. Do you really think a person would not save the evidence of the one thing they were searching for?

The facts are that he has been charged with a crime in the US who has jurisdiction for the crime that he has committed and admitted to. He will get a fair trial. If found guilty he will be sentenced fairly.

All I can say is your time and effort put into this site would be better spent of someone more worthy.

You should be commended for what you did. The government just want to keep all that alien technology to themselves. With the price of oil at all time high, now really would be a good time for these secrets to come out about cold fusion and free alien energy sources

I would love to see just one of these Americans on here that back extradition answer a question that has been asked numerous times on this forum. Perhaps I've overlooked it but my apologies if I have, please quote if I missed. If not I shall ask those people;

Why are your Government not helping the UK with the extradition of those that killed British servicemen/women and a TV reporter, the latter which has been ruled unlawful by British courts, any takers from the pro extradition camp?

Come on... you've been asked many, many times and it has been strangely overlooked so far. Wonder why...

Gary didn't steal passwords there were none, and no firewalls.
Gary set passwords on many of the military machines to make them more secure because people from all over the world had infiltrated the military computers systems.
Gary did not cause damage, intentionally or otherwise and his family are not embarrased by him, just terrified of him being sent to a country that can contemplate such totally disproportionate sentences for low level computer intrusion on a dial up machine six and a half years ago. He could not save the Evidence because a dial up machine is more than 800 times slower than todays computers.
He contributes hugely to society by standing up for justice and being brave enough to point out what many believe but are afraid to say.
The current American government is Guilty of State Sponsored Terrorism.
A letter sent to this website by a young girl named Chelsie, told the story of Gary on New Years Eve, standing up against six thugs that were seriously threatening Chelsie and her young boyfriend. Gary fought off the thugs, although he deplores violence. Gary's girlfriend was kicked in the stomache by the thugs. He did not know if they had guns or knives but fortunately his intervention saved the young couple from a violent fate and as Chelsie said "Gary has restored her faith in Human Nature".
Gary also supported his Ex girlfriend you refer to, through a seriously difficult period of her life and she would not say a bad word against Gary because she knows how he stood by her at a time when few would.

Gary has never admitted to causing damage despite the threats directed at him by the Ex F.B.I attache Ed Gibson, now security chief for Microsoft UK. (including the threat of being Fried)

Fair Trial? Not a hope. Look up the case of the English girl Chantal McCorkle, sentenced to 20 years in a hard line American prison for making infomercials on how to make money doing up houses. Her American boyfriend is in an open prison but Chantal is in chains, because she's British she's considered a flight risk which is a joke.
After serving ten years in an American prison she was refused repatriation to serve the remainder of her sentence in the UK because "Her non violent crime was too serious".

Computer hacking should never have been deemed to be an extraditable offence; only violent crimes should be extraditable.

Gary set passwords that protected US citizens and I'm going to make sure they hear about it in a very LOUD VOICE.

Duncan Campbell The Guardian, Friday August 1 2008

America's cracked code

US courts can guarantee little justice for a curious British hacker who now faces trial as a terrorist

So Gary McKinnon, the hacker who cracked the computer systems of the Pentagon and Nasa from his bedroom in north London more than seven years ago, is to be extradited to stand trial in the US. That was the ruling this week of the law lords as they departed on their summer holidays.

They brushed aside the arguments of McKinnon's distinguished legal team that he could not be guaranteed a fair trial there. "The difference between the American system and our own is not perhaps so stark as the appellant's argument suggests," said Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood in his ruling. "It is difficult to think of anything other than the threat of unlawful action which could fairly be said so to imperil the integrity of the extradition process as to require the accused to be discharged irrespective of the case against him."

Well, who knows what news gets through to Eaton-under-Haywood these days, but if Lord Brown and his four colleagues had done some cursory research on the current state of the US criminal justice system, they would know there is a very stark difference between the way he could be treated by the US courts and how he would be treated here.

There may be much wrong with the British criminal justice system but, compared to the lottery that is the American judicial process, there are a number of sober differences. For a start, here you would not find yourself in jail for 50 years for stealing $160 worth of videotapes, or for 25 years for smoking marijuana. Nor does the UK operate a Guantánamo Bay where the most basic legal principles have been abandoned as part of a post-9/11 panic. And there is no guarantee that, if tried in the US, McKinnon would not be confronted by some grandstanding, publicity-seeking judge deeply offended that a chap in a flat in north London can leave a message saying "your security is really crap" on the Pentagon computer, as McKinnon did. After all, one American official in this case has already said that he would like to see him "fry".

Gary McKinnon started his hacking long before the events of September 11 and his offence has nothing to do with terrorism. In fact, much of his exploration was in pursuit of information about UFOs. But, because of the embarrassment he has caused the Pentagon, he is being pursued as if his offence was in some way connected to US national security. He will not, in reality, face 60 years in jail, but he could well receive a grossly disproportionate sentence for an offence that would be dealt with in this country with a fine and community service. Maybe he would have to pay some compensation, although the real financial cost to the Pentagon and Nasa systems is small, certainly nothing like the fanciful, inflated claim of $700,000 being made by the US authorities. The real loss is one of face.

What McKinnon did was expose a faulty security system in a mischievous fashion. Previous hackers in this country who have transgressed in this way, out of curiosity rather than for financial gain, have been rewarded with jobs as security consultants by the very firms whose systems they cracked. McKinnon himself has been congratulated by some members of the US military for showing up the failings of their system. If the US authorities had been smart, they would have invited McKinnon into the embassy and asked him for advice rather than seeking to make him a scapegoat for their own inadequacies.

This week the law lords had a wonderful opportunity to assert our independence from the US and to make a point about the abandonment of legal principles there since September 11. They have failed to do so. We must now hope that the European court of human rights will step in to prevent a great injustice to a man whose real offence was to tell the Pentagon a blunt truth.

duncan.campbell AT

@ Eye4Lies -

You seem to be the one closest to O'l Gary.

Not so - can read comments from his mother in this comment thread.

deleting operating system files on a Domain Controller, Backup Domain Controller and Email Servers so that they cannot run or reboot is considered damage.

Yes, that would count as damage.

That should not have mattered, if the Enterprise Domain controllers were properly configured, secured and backed up.

Any properly run commercial system would have recovered from this in 4 hours or at most 24 hours, depending on the level of business continuity disaster recovery plan.

Given the amount of money the US Military spends on its computers, they could have afforded much higher levels of resilience and redundancy, and such a disruption could have been recovered from in a matter of seconds or minutes.

It is inconceivable that there were no actual plans or orders or standard operating procedures for this to be so in a military environment.

Whether what you and the US prosecution allege was actually done by Gary, or by one of the US Military systems administrators in error, or by one of the number of Chinese, Russian or USA etc. based intruders who were also on the the same completely unsecured systems, at the same time is something which requires detailed proof.

Then there is also the question of proving beyond reasonable doubt, actual intent, which is never easy in a Court, even if there were to be plenty of hard evidence.

These are proper questions for a Court, and require actual evidence, which can be challenged and cross examined by the defence.

None of this has happened so far, as no evidence , even of a reduced, less detailed, prima facie kind has been tested in a British Court, only unproven allegations have been made.

Examination of prima facie evidence used to be the procedure under the previous US / UK extradition treaty from 1972 until the twice disgraced Home Secretary David Blunkett signed away our British sovereignty and his Labour Government colleagues used their then overwhelming majority in Parliament to rubber stamp (without properly debating) the Extradition Act 2003 into British law, even before the US had actually ratified the new extradition treaty.

One of the things that really annoys people here in the UK, is that anyone being extradited from the USA to the UK continues to have the old right to confront prima facie evidence in a US Court. This is unjust, since extradition treaties should be fair and equal in both directions, but this one is not.

The fact that this 2003 law is being used retrospectively on Gary, who was arrested in 2002, is in itself an affront to normal justice.

Your personal insults about Gary only portray a bad impression of yourself.

Gary's actions are something which he sincerely regrets, and does not wish other people to copy.

He is certainly less of a disgrace than the negligent, incompetent, or corrupt or actively treacherous senior US Military Officers, Department of Defense officials, private sector Defense Contractors and Politicians, who were supposed to be managing, auditing and reviewing the US Military computer systems, and who failed to notice or to act on the elementary systems configuration mistake which left thousands of computers vulnerable.

This would have been a bad enough scandal if the mistake had happened and was detected and corrected at the next regular security audit, but it was allowed to persist not for days or weeks, but for several years

If you are a US patriot and taxpayer, you should be hunting down those people who were responsible for such mismanagement or perhaps deliberate corruption or treason, and making sure that they are removed from any positions of power or influence over current military systems.

He will get a fair trial. If found guilty he will be sentenced fairly.

If this case had started off a few years earlier, you might have been able to argue that point convincingly.

Unfortunately, the huge propaganda victory which the current US Government handed over to their enemies, by flouting the US Constitution and the normal civilian justice system, by establishing the Guantanamo Bay concentration camp, has ruined the reputation of the United States justice system internationally.

The "jurisdiction shopping" by the US authorities also points to an unfair trial.

Out of 14 US States which could have been chosen, the main indictment was chosen deliberately to be in the Eastern District of Virginia, at Alexandria. This is surrounded by the Pentagon (just across the state line), the US Army Fort Belvoir, the National Security Agency at Fort Meade, and other US Government offices and private sector companies reliant on US Government or Military or Intelligence contracts.

You may recall seeing this particular Court on the TV news, as it was used for the high profile trial of Zacarias Moussaoui the September 11th 2001 terrorist attack co-conspirator.

What chance is there for the jury pool not to be full of people who work directly for, or who have friends and relatives, who work for the very organisations which run the computer systems which Gary is accused of accessing ?

That alone would make the prospect of a fair trial impossible.

Its time to see the ufo's stuff with our own eyes.

If your not interested, go clean the house intead of commenting that isnt doing any good.

What password did he use - was it Joshua or Falken's Maze? Gary's done the US a favour by highlighting an error - yes his wrists should be slapped but in his own country.

@ Mak - the default Local Administrator password for a Windows NT system is blank, i.e. no password at all.

Not setting such a password clearly contradicts both Microsoft's instructions and all US Military standard operating procedures and orders.

This was compounded by the lack of internet firewalls.

Even back in 2001, most people's home computers were better protected than this.

@ fg

Thanks but I wasn't asking the question, best not to under the circumstances.. twas my pathetic stab at a joke relating to the film War Games :(

is there a petition or something we can sign against the deportation?

Its a shame he is being extradited... I think he deserves a UK trial, if anything at all

I reckon his alleged crimes were a help to the US security services. He showed how easy it was to wander in and out of their most sensitive files and therefore forced them to beef up their software to combat future intrusion.

They should give the lad a job!

Hacking is hacking and it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law no matter what system is hacked into. Hacking is damaging and dangerous regardless if it is the US government or someone's personal information. The majority of postings to this site seem to be in support of the defendant because of America's recent deplorable indiscretions in the global arena. While I understand that many people believe that America has done plenty to enrage the world, this is a clear-cut example of a man with a computer doing things that he should not do. I would hope that an American would be prosecuted for acting in a similar manner against the British government. It is popular to bash America at this point, but I think this case has little to do with the current political situation and has more to do with how to deal with cyber crime itself. So long as hackers are permitted free reign to access sensitive material, whether personal or governmental, our security is constantly at risk. I doubt that anyone who has had their identity stolen as a result of hacking would feel as though this man should be shown any leniency at all. If he were an American citizen he would be tried for treason. Perhaps he should be tried for espionage. Would people feel differently is he were Chinese? What about North Korean? How about Iranian? Would British citizens feel comfortable with a Northern Irish person hacking into England's military computers?

I am so ashamed of the British Government and the House of Lords.
The new extradition Act is a disgrace. MPs that voted in favour of it should be voted out of office!
This barrage of attacks and exaggeration against him should be criminalised itself.
What is wrong with the Americans that they are so agressive in chasing down someone who has embarrassed them so badly? That is the same behaviour as is found in crackpot dictatorships all over the world!
Sure Gary has done wrong, but 6 months community service would seem a fair price to pay for what he has done. He definitely does not deserve to be extradited under criminally unfair, one-sided rules.
Good luck Gary with your appeal to Strasbourg.

@ Julia -

Hacking is hacking

"hacking" covers a vast spectrum of activities: some legal; some borderline; some illegal in one country, but not in others; some with malicious intent, some without.

They are not all equivalent to each other. Each case should be judged on its merits and on the actual evidence, just like, for example, the vast array of activities involving motor vehicles.

I would hope that an American would be prosecuted for acting in a similar manner against the British government

There has never been an extradition of anyone from the USA to the United Kingdom to face computer hacking charges, despite the thousands or millions of attacks on UK systems every day coming directly or indirectly from the USA. What few prosecutions there have been, have been dealt with by the US authorities in the USA.

The Gary McKinnon case does not involve hacking for money or for espionage even the US Prosecutors have stated this plainly.

If he were an American citizen he would be tried for treason.

None of the US hackers who have broken into US Military computers have ever been charged with treason.

Perhaps he should be tried for espionage.

There is no evidence that "Solo", the nickname which Gary used,was working with or for anyone else. The US Prosecutors said as much back in 2002.

Would people feel differently is he were Chinese? What about North Korean? How about Iranian?

Given how literally wide open an unprotected those Military Computers were, and given the utter incompetence or corruption or treason of those senior US Military Officers, Department of Defense officials, private sector Defense Contractors and Politicians, who allowed this appalling state of computer insecurity to persist, not for a few days or weeks, but for years on end, you should rightly be worried about criminals and intelligence agencies from every internet connected country in the world, who you should assume were also intruding on these computers at the same time.

Would British citizens feel comfortable with a Northern Irish person hacking into England's military computers?

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - domestic law, the Computer Misuse Act 1990 applies, and Extradition does not come into it.

US Military Computers, during the same time frame as Gary's activities, were much more secure than US Military ones, partly because of the reluctance to of the UK Ministry of Defence to allow them to be connected to the internet at all, and partly due to extra protections such Security Extensions for Windows NT, which would have protected against the misconfiguration which Gary and others exploited on the US systems, even if this had, somehow been allowed to happen on UK systems.

Gary has admitted tat what he did was wrong, and is willing to face a British Court, and , if necessary, to serve time in a British prison if found guilty.

I doubt that anyone who has had their identity stolen as a result of hacking would feel as though this man should be shown any leniency at all.

This case does not involve so called "identity theft", which is a term often misused by the media and politicians to cover what is essential plain fraud and theft, only part of which actually involves computers at all, and which predates the use of computers of any sort.

It is not a question of leniency, but rather one of proportionality, and the fundamental principles of an accused person having the right to face a fair trial, based on actual evidence, to the criminal standard of proof i.e. beyond reasonable doubt.

This could be possible in a UK court, but, unfortunately, this is not possible in the United States in this case -see previous comment above - August 1, 2008 11:17 AM

I think if Gary was truely seeking knowledge about UFOs it is the opinion of this American that he be treated to a slap on the wrist.

I think its possible though that he might've been gaining this intel as a proxie for another party perhaps. This UFO seeking could be a cover in an attempt to beguile those who would seek to punish him. (I do think this possibility is unlikely)

I think the NASA computers might be open to probing because we're not trying to hide our space activities.

Oh yeah, it sounds like what he found were photos.. and personell files.. he didn't find missle guidance chip schematics.. the airbrushed photos might conceal cameras and spygear.. the personell files for offworlders prolly mean military officers who get transfered to NASA but remain in the active roster of our military.. All this yipyap about how we have our secrets out in the open for all to see.. is bullshit lol.

The USA's policies on national defense and law enforcement are summarized as ''deterance'' that said.. this would be why our buearcrats want his balls. Personally I'd prefer we'd not invest our pencil pushers to squeeze this guy.. but we have too many.. the rest have to have something to do eh?

EHCR? *shrug* if he deserves the loophole I hope he gets it. Hes a British citizen and he hasn't tried to IED my convoy. Hes entitled to a normal federal trial with all the rights that an American citizen would enjoy. If he faces a military tribunal.. he's fucked lol. I think there are people out here in this world who deserve that.. but not Mr.Gary.

Ah well, yeah.. goodluck guys. I'll be watchin' this. If ya'll make a good case for the fact that he really was a over-zealous UFO junkie.. I bet the merciless US gov might be coaxed toward.. something against its exaggerated nature..

American: It's not possible that he might have been gaining the intel as a proxie for another party. The US admitted at the time that Gary had no links whatsoever to any terrorists or terrorism.
He had a dial up computer at the time and his connection speed was more than 800 times slower than todays broadband.
This all happened six and a half years ago.

If anyone left their front doors opened with their children inside for years on end and if someone then walked in and alerted the home owners/ parents to the fact that strangers from all over the place were wandering around their house and that their children were unprotected and if those parents still did nothing, they would be prosecuted for gross negligence and abandonment and would lose their children.

The person that alerted them to the fact that their doors were left wide opened would not be prosecuted.

If the parents then started trying to accuse that person of causing damage, everyone would plainly see that this was a devious ploy to attempt to take the attention away from the parents crime of gross negligence for leaving their children (in this case the American nation) unprotected.

A sensible American journalist recently wrote that he is amazed that the US government want to bring this case to America as it will expose the total lack of security and make fools of them but in his words, they will play with matches.

I believe that the sooner they drop this case the better.

Whatever happened to a statute of limitations?

Why did the UK ever allow this one sided treaty to be made retrospective thus allowing the Americans to arrest Gary at least two years after the fact?

Why have America still not signed this one sided treaty, making the UK government look like the fools and idiots that they are, for selling their citizens out and designating them to be second class citizens in the eyes of the world.

Whatever happened to equal rights?

The following excerpt of the British government's judgment against Gary is singularly important to emphasize - Gary has essentially been threatened with HOMOSEXUAL RAPE if he doesn't give himself up to the United States. That the Americans allow this evil to go on in their prisons is a disgrace that should be stopped. I am ashamed to be an American when I read about such horrors.

About a week before the Canadian extradition hearing the American prosecuting attorney was interviewed on Canadian television and said:

"I have told some of these individuals, 'look, you can come down and you can put this behind you by serving your time in prison and making restitution to the victims, or you can wind up serving a great deal longer sentence under much more stringent conditions' and describe those conditions to them."

Asked by the interviewer "How would you describe those conditions?", the attorney replied: "You are going to be the boyfriend of a very bad man if you wait out your extradition". That was understood by the Court to mean that they would be subject to homosexual rape. Asked then: "And does that have much of an impact on these people?", the attorney answered: "Well, out of the 89 people we have indicted so far, approximately 55 of them have said, 'We give up'".

What kind of world do we live in????????

What is the reason for our previous post of some links not being posted online? - censorship?
Lunar Girl
Press Release from Gary's Solicitor
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to ...
News updates..
US Military, MIB, NASA: a treason? Disclosure is i...
US military and Nasa are hiding serious UFO inform...
Do you want real help & support for Gary from US and the world or not?
Or you do not need Aurion Mission's support?

Odd... when it was 1998 and there was a Dictator being held, everything was done that was possible to secure his release. When Pinochet finally arrived on Chilean soil, despite being defended as being "too ill to stand extradition", he danced a jig to the delight of his supporters.

Thank you Jack Straw and the House of Lords in your immense wisdom for protecting the rights of your citizens.

Fuck him. He played with fire and got burned. He taunted and was called out. Lesson learned:Never fuck with the United States.

Make the punishment fit the crime. He must be under house arrest and work for the US gov in computer security. Quit wasting money with trials and get on with using his assets (computer savvy) to repair any damage. He should be able to help them secure their systems and look for holes for the next 3 years or so.


Governments are in bed with bankers and corporations. They are all murdering criminal scum. The secret services are running around creating nearly all the Terror on behalf of these Mafia, Nazis, Fascists and Eugenicists. They create the wars and laugh while the soldiers and civilians die. They poison your kids using vaccines, additives, Fluoride. They programme you via the so called Education system which is actually making everyone succesively dumber. The Law is The Law od the Bank. You are stock via your Birth Certificate. They own all the media, TV, bookshops and magazines and feed you programming and propoganda. They rewrite history. Vatican City, City of London etc. The real power. Politicians and parties are to fool the slaves into thinking they have a choice. It doesn't matter who gets in power, the agenda will continue regardless. The EU is a fascist dictatorship. The UN plan to rule the earth. China versus Russia is being set up. They wany billions to die. They rob roads and utilities that you have paid for and sell them to foreigners who handle stolen goods. The banking system is privately owned and loans money out of thin air that you then pay back via blood, sweat and tears. Credit Crunch, Credit Spree. Economic Cycles are deliberatley created to suck you dry. It's all fraud. The biggest fraud ever. These people murder on a daily basis. Free Energy for all has been suppressed for decades. They have Antigravity. Poverty could be ended. Oil is plentiful. There is an oil discivery in Alaska bigger thgan the Saudi fileds combined. They won't drill, and they won't refine. They want the dolar crashed. You pay by the meter, ALWAYS. They are going to take everything, use their mob enforcers, police, to kill you via camps, plagues, disease's, false medication, re-ducation camps, ovens... the works. Mind Control is coming via HAARP and Cell Towers that aren't really. You are targetted with Satellites, Surveillance everywhere, Faulty DNA fingerprinting, 9/11, 7/1, Madrid and many more and documentation has been released to prove all this. It's not hidden particularly, you just don't look because you are suffering from psychological and chemical attacks. Wake up you fools. It's a Slave System and they are about to collect. They've robbed the world and want a vast cull and then a technology based fascist dictatorship with elites and dumbed down, genetically altered slaves. They can probably live forever or something. We are decades behind where technology really is. Black Ops (secret services) run the wold's drug rings, slave rings, people smuggling. If there's a black profit to be had these scum are running it. WW3 is coming unless you idiots wake up and wake up fast!!! These people's crimes are never ending and some of them defy belief in horror. Such are the psychopaths you have and are voting for. They are EVIL, pure and simple. OUR enemies, yours and mine, all the people's of the world. The Governments are rogue and it's easily proveable and it's about to get exceedingly dangerous. Traitors everywhere.

This is a sad sad day. But not entirely unexpected dealing with the establishment.

You, however, have our full support Gary.

If there is anything you need, just ask.

Hang in there - there is light at the end of the tunnel...


The decision of the House of Lords and the swiftness in which the decision was made shows the UK and US are one. The UK has no independence! If he trusts the "system" to somehow get him justice he is a mislead fool! His only chance now is to escape to a sympathetic country which has no extradition treaty with the US or Britain. Don't trust the "system" it is pure evil!

I am an American citizen and I do not think Gary has committed a very terrible offense. At worst he has done something analogous to trespassing on private property. To the extent that he may have deleted files he may be guilty of some mild form of vandalism. None of this should lead to a lengthy prison term in USA or anywhere else. Someone here observed that the Pentagon owes him a favor, and should ask him how he did it clean up their own house, not threaten him for it. That's also true. Maybe instead, they should offer him a job as a consultant on improving their own cyber security.

The U.S. had themselves wide open and in prosecuting this gentleman are trying to save face. For a country that is supposedly as advanced as the U.S. there should have been safe-guards in place. mr. McKinnon may have actually provided a service to the U.S. in revealing to them their vunerability,which if had been found by another that may not have been so easily persued.

I think the point that is missing here, one I have seen only hints at so far, is that Gary seems to have stated at one point (I remember reading such on, I believe, the web-site) that he found a listing of "space-based" personnel, complete with names, the name of the ship (under naval control) and some personnel records of these individuals.

Obviously, if this is the case, then what is going on here is most likely an extreme level of cover-up, not a legitimate and straightforward prosecution.

While I could be mistaken, and while Gary could have lied about this information, if his story of what he found was true, then this whole scenario makes a lot more sense.

Also, to preempt the obvious come back of why Gary would not be using this information as part of his defense that is simple. If he found any such information, even on an open server, it would be classified now and he would face greater (and more certain) prison time for speaking of it.

Yes, things can and often are classified after the fact. You also are responsible for this informations release, even if it was not classified at the time of your releasing it.

Secret Laws that most will never encounter, but laws we must abide by anyway, under the current system. Remember ignorance of the law has long been held in the U.S. to not be a viable excuse for breaking said laws.

Again, my point is this: If Gary found what he claimed he found, then, even though it is not public knowledge at this point, he would be in a world of hurt as far as the U.S. is concerned.

It is surprising that this is a legal matter at all given that fact, rather than an extra-legal action by some secret organization.

Spies are Spies and whether or not it was spying as a past time for your own information or spying
to feed another person's information .Spies are spies are spies.
Anyone not agreeing with this should be locked up with him

The information on some government data base that was seen by this person was not intended to become free to the world even if we need free energy to help those less fortunate than us.

His heart was and is maybe in the right place and his best intention he says was to help provide access to everyone on free energy was his goal.

We all know there is secrets like this hidden by many governments and not just the US.


ITS a crime against mankind to keep information such as free energy from the world as we could prevent people from freezing to death and starving to death as Gary wished to help stop.

We should stop this person Gary or anyone like this from being tried by the US Federal Courts for trying to help mankind and those who may live another day and not freeze or starve to death.

Would we prosecute someone for stealing secrets about a cure for cancer.

We have the same ethical question here to decide and not some Federal Courts who have no ethical
reasoning anymore as seen by the latest actions in the courts there.

OVER-DRAMATIZING small things can lead to criminalizing people who from the very beginning were only guilty of small mischievous acts. If this computer hacker is being HACKED AT with the threat of decades of prison time LOOK FOR A SECRET AGENDA BY THOSE WHO WISH TO IMPOSE SUCH INHUMANE TREATMENT, find out if those sadists are members of secret societies who wish to control man.

Oh Great!
Now the EU can be the good guy and show their immense value to mankind.
Does anyone else sense another scam going on here?

People are missing the point. Gary did not hack into any systems. He typed in factory preset administrator passwords to gain access. Eg Name: Administrator, Password: Password.
If that is the extent of the protection that the US Space Commanders put on their secret files regarding extra-terrestrials, the secret space fleets, the exploration of the solar system and their contact with aliens, then perhaps every US citizen should be asking questions not only about how well there country is protected (911?), but about what exactly are they keeping from you regarding space exploration? If you haven't figured out why your country is going bankrupt then just think about where all of those trillions of tax dollars have really gone, and what your money has been spent on? I am tempted to say 'It isn't Rocket Science'....but the irony is too much for me to bear.

America is superior to any and all other nations. Anyone who doesnt believe this should hang????
This person showed a weakness in the USA.
According to the logic of letting people walk into an open house, then Bush et al should be held accontable for 911 and the Blair eta l for 77, they were wraned repeatedly.

Free Gary McKinnon!

Even if Gary had done nothing but sniff the insoles of GW's slippers, an American Jury would want him hanged. Why? Because Americans are reactionary, insular, paranoid people obsessed with "rapture". It would NOT be a fair trial under such circumstances. He should be tried anywhere but the Theocratic states of America.

CRIME - On computer/information crime. Being that this is the "Information Age" it is easy to assume that information is of value. Given that, what I see every day in the field is that sensitive information is a valuable posession and if I was to approach any insurance company and ask them to insure me for a million dollars in case my sensitive corporate information is compromised I will be expecting a complete audit of my IT security. It is considered by insurance companies that if the keys are in the ignition the owness of the theft is on the owner and not insureable against criminal access. The same logic applies to my corporate/government network security level. If the password is blank I can expect that anyone has been given access and what occurs after that point is my responsibility.

SECURITY - It is common knowledge to those of us out there that the Windows operating system is so full of security breaches and built in backdoors that I personally do not understand why Microsoft is not charged with computer crime. What we have here is an entire planet full of computers that have live connections to the microsoft servers, ect. Is this the security level that we are talking about here? Or is there some ISP proxy that governments and corporations regularely route all private connections through to filter/sniff traffic? And then there is the whole structure of the domain name system - so easily compromised? Is this the security standard we are talking?

Gary did not use a cycle counter to access, did not clone a MAC, did not intercept an ACK, nor reroute traffic. He did not need a key to enter - the door was unlocked. PLEASE consult with Lords of London on insurance recovery practices on this. And if it was my corporate headquarters I would fire all my IT staff.

And the whole point on this - what mostly concerns those of us with an IQ above 160 - is that although information access is an issue, so is the lack of information access. We are being lied to. There is extraterrestrials, there is a free energy source and there is an off Earth military base.

Well in case no one knows this, the government computers CANNOT be hacked into, how do I know? I work for AT&T, the government has always had their own lines dedicated strictly for their use, always have. They do NOT use the lines that the internet flows over, they use ATM (asynchronous trasnmission mode) and Frame Relay technology. Even at AT&T we cannot capture or decipher their info being broadcast. All we can see is the flow, both ways, but you have to have a router specifically calibrated to recieve what is being sent, and it would take an insider to even have that info. He may have hacked into some low scale university or offsite station but nothing as serious as bringing down their network, just cannot be done. When they invented DARPA they took great precaution to prevent that WAY before the internet was made public. So what he had access too might be controversial, BUT he is not or never was the threat he is being made out to be.

Christine whored:

"Good decision.

He broke into U.S. military computer networks and therefore should stand trial in the U.S. and serve his sentence, if found guilty, in the U.S. He should also pay restitution for the costs the network administrators had to expend to repair the damage he did."

Christine, I'm a citizen of the United States and taxpayer. Very little of what the federal government does serves my purposes. I'm glad for every effort that they have to spend maintaining their system because that effort can then not be spend expanding it.

So pop another pill of paroxetine while you're at it and lean back and twitch a little as you near the point where it is giving you seizures.

Dan, to your case when you leave your door unlocked and you get robbed.

You said to someone:

Following your logic, YOU should be prosecuted by the legal system for being negligent and leaving your door unlocked.

Not needed to get prosecuted, because you would already have punished yourself enough, by being so stupid. No insurance company would cover any of your losses.

Financial Institutions even don't say in most cases anything when money gets stolen and don't even take any action or start an investigation. A certain percentage of their revenues is normally used for that to cover. They don't say anything, because how would it sound when they get robbed every couple weeks. It is just a small amount for the bank, but not for the thief.
When i have sensible information on my server and i don't secure it and it gets stolen, there is nothing i can do about it, because i did not take any precautions to prevent that. Got it?

When he really just used login information to gain access, he can be prosecuted but not be punished. If that is really the case.

Why dont we tell the Yanks to go take a run and jump? If the Yanks can tell us to go take our hooks when we want their Pilots who murdered our British soldiers to appear before our courts then we should do the same to them.

Let me get this straight. It's just peachy if the Pentagon and US intelligence and police goons want to hack the email and tap the phone lines of US citizens (and people all over the world) but its 20 years in the slam and a multi-million dollar fine if this dude wants to turn the tables on them? That other comment was correct. They ought to beg the guy to go to work for them.

@ V2 - the reason your previous comment posting full of links has not appeared is because the standard blog filters here treat such postings, correctly, as spam.

Your IP address is also listed on as a source of blog comment spam, something which also applies to a number of the other comments in this thread.

Lesson learned:Never fuck with the United States.......... Good one Steve...... Because they will fuck you a thousand times worse! I don't know what's scarier... our government that will indeed do that...or self righteous goons like Ol Steve here of which there appear to be PLENTY of...judging by these comments. Kinda makes you wonder about hope for this country. Steve probably thinks 19 Arab gentlemen with boxcutters... well you know the story. Gary... you are being made an example of... we can only hope and pray that the example has a happy ending. Peace brother..and the rest of you here who actually have a heart...... and A CLUE!!!

What a obscene and abject decision!
The Lords House is now a place for obscenity?

For the pathetic persons who are coment about the pretense "crime" - and about Pentagon who is responsible for the mass killing of milions since de Korean war?
Seems that USA is ruled by any kind of Law. USA is the land where gangsters were able to grow up, and is ruled by gangsters.
The Law you have is Guantanamo, and bombs.
The pathetic and defeated UK government wants just make a last favour to fellow criminals.

@ Dwayne -

Well in case no one knows this, the government computers CANNOT be hacked into,

That is obviously not true.

how do I know? I work for AT&T, the government has always had their own lines dedicated strictly for their use, always have. They do NOT use the lines that the internet flows over, they use ATM (asynchronous trasnmission mode) and Frame Relay technology.

True, but they no longer only use those dedicated lines or bandwidth any more, they also use lots of others.

There are plenty of supposedly private virtual circuits which share the same actual physical hardware as internet traffic.

Surely, as a worker for AT&T you remember the WorldCom scandal, whereby the telecomms "cloud" of ATM , Frame Relay and other voice and data communications they were selling to US Government departments for their supposedly secure , internal networks, was actually being Least Cost Routed, and sometimes traffic between say Washington and San Francisco was traveling via foreign countries such as Canada or Mexico etc. where it was certainly being snooped on ?

Even at AT&T we cannot capture or decipher their info being broadcast. All we can see is the flow, both ways, but you have to have a router specifically calibrated to recieve what is being sent, and it would take an insider to even have that info.

Or you need to have hacked into such a router.

There are still a remarkable number of routers and switches in the telecomms cloud (in most countries) which still do not use encryption on their management interfaces and still use, for example Telnet and Trivial FTP

He may have hacked into some low scale university or offsite station but nothing as serious as bringing down their network, just cannot be done.

The list of systems which Gary is accused of accessing contradicts your assertion.

When they invented DARPA they took great precaution to prevent that WAY before the internet was made public.

They then chose to ignore the correct security procedures which had been laid down, presumably simply for the convenience of internet access.

There used to be just two official internet gateways into NIPRNET, with proper firewalls etc. one on the East coast, one on the West coast, but they only had a pathetic 64Kbs of bandwidth.

Lots of other internet connections to NIPRNET have sprung up over the years, some obviously without any firewall etc. protection whatsoever.

It is inconceivable that nobody within the system warned their superiors about the risks of doing this, but some incompetent, or corrupt or treacherous senior Military Officers, Department of Defense officials, Defense Contractor Companies and Politicians must have ignored such warnings, not fr a few weeks or months, but for years on end.

So what he had access too might be controversial, BUT he is not or never was the threat he is being made out to be.

That is probably true.

I'm extremely concerned that the reason the US want to extradite McKinnon is not because they are particularly concerned about a small time hacker but because of what they think he saw.

They want to put him somewhere where they can mute him.

So many people here commenting on what are laws and what is illegal, yet by how they make their comments they don't have a clue as too the difference. I'll give you people a clue: the U.S.A. is a fiction, and being a fiction it cannot be harmed(and dont get into well it represents a large group of people nonsense). The thing is that even judging by Garys comments he is himself partly brainwashed. I'm not surprised that certain people who work in governments or through them get away with what they do(I'm talking about TPTB's who exercise big time control and manipulation). One thing is laws and statutes(what is legal or not) are both man made; so in response to anothers comment; everyone IS ABOVE THE LAW; In order for a law to be made a consciousness had to exist first and foremost. So if you live by your consciousness first, you are by default automatically above the law. Gary first used his consciousness when he was looking into the matter because he was sure that the governments are holding back and controlling technologies that could benefit mankind greatly; but there are many just like the posters here who prefer to keep the system going out of their own fears and attack Gary. For those who can't even bear to think how we could live harmoniously without laws and statutes(man made ones) has never fathomed their own consciousness because it would be self revealing how it can be so.

This is being done to keep Mr. McKinnon from telling the world what he found.
The U.S must be stoped!

I'm writing to wish Gary McKinnon good luck in his appeal to the European Court of Human Rights. The 70-year sentence that Gary could face if convicted in the US is utterly disproportionate. Moreover, it's quite unacceptable that the UK should extradite a person to a country that does not offer reciprocal extradition arrangements for its own people.

My reading of the US-UK Extradition Treaty suggests that it might actually be unlawful for the UK to extradite Gary McKinnon to the US. Article 4 of the Treaty states that 'Extradition shall not be granted if the offense for which extradition is requested is a political offense'. It then goes on to list of series of actions that may not be considered 'political', none of which would apply to Gary.

The most popular dictionary in the United States (Merriam-Webster) defines 'political' as 'involving ... acts against a government or a political system'. My understanding from news reports is that Gary's goal in targetting US military computers was to find information (about alleged UFOs) that he believed the US was withholding, and which it would have been in the public interest to reveal. I'm neither a UFO-believer nor a lawyer, but I do believe that Gary's actions could be construed as political, and his offence therefore non-extraditable. I sincerely hope that the ECHR will take this into account during its deliberations.

The treaty to which I refer can be found online here, by the way:

Two important reasons why the USA is hiding the UFO stuff, i think:

First thought:
With the ufo technology you can have "Free energy", this means petrol companys as Shell, Esso,.. have to close. So they are against it.

Second thought:
The USA wants to be the leader of this planet EARTH in case of war (or whatever), and keeps the technology for their own.
But only a very bad man want it this way!

My english isnt good, but i can read all the information in my own language, thanks to this site:


its just american laws..not crime against humanity or anything of inportance...just have him face charges in uk Dont forget he found some very interesting things on the us goverment an space programs an (maybe) ET,s.

Justice in the UK vs Usa. I say flip a coin.

The US (as all people in the know) is driving an illegitimate game. Justice is just an outlandish word, it is a fistf****** FARCE. Give me a break...

I'm certainly glad to see that most all of you have gone EXACTLY where the U.S. Government wants you to go and have gotten wrapped around the axle in the process. You have TOTALLY lost sight of the original story. The problem is NOT what he did. The problem is what he FOUND. OK, so you don't believe it. It IS hard to believe. What he found, when studied, will open a nasty bag of snakes that TPTB do NOT want to answer. The solution is to put the culprit away. That poor fellows problem was that he was wasted and took no protective measures, such as making copies of files with names and other data on them and using THAT as an insurance policy. The government denies everything and he can prove nothing. I worked for the government for many years, and I can tell you, they can make some incredible blunders on occasion. But, if you folks want to stay wrapped around the axle, by all means please feel free to do so. Just don't complain when you suddenly wake up and discover that the grease is, interstingly enough, smeared around your backsides.

The US Department of Defense should pay the man and/hire him if they had half a brain...England rules the USA etcetera thanks

A lot of big talk and not one tot of action.
If you truly supported this guy, you would be down there with your friends and their friends and thousands more; to actually obstruct this egregious miscarriage of justice.
Is everyone so scared of the system that they are frightened to stand for a point, for a standard of justice, for a greater ideal?
How far does the wedge of oppression and no justice have to be shoved up humanities collective asses, before we squirm into a state less benign than just whingeing about it?
What will be the straw that breaks the camel's back? What will it take?

Intent is an important element in the determining of whether a crime or certain severity of crime has taken place.
Judging by what I have seen and heard, McKinnon behaved like an idiot and perhaps by his actions caused some issues, but if his intent was just innocent enquiry, then it is tough to understand the "terrorist" definition, other than an inference or devious veiled threat to remove him to the never never land of a place such as Gitmo et al.

As has been seen in evidence for the defence in this case, there was no security.

If it were an apartment block and he gained access by entering at the same time as an authorized person, and then all he did was look around and poke in corners, he could be charged with gaining illegal entry or the more likely common trespass.
The boneheads that ran that system of such high security importance and only had it protected by a password, should be fired, further the pension chasing brain dead upper echelon paper jockeys that oversaw and still oversee this long going debacle, should be charged with dereliction of duty and criminal negligence. Give the job to a couple of teenagers who really understand security and we might get somewhere.
Because if the only thing protecting these data bases is a user name and password, then we are toast.

The reason that they want McKinnon is because of what he is saying he saw, when rumbling through their digital filing cabinets, and that he has repeatedly broadcast his story throughout the media. This has obviously pissed off some very senior people, and like some medieval demon they are uttering vile threats of raping, seventy years of isolation torture and the implicit human horror it all conjures up.

As for what his sentence should be for whatever he is alleged to have done; I am no judge, but it would not include the vicious threats levelled against him by his prosecutors.
Seemingly this became truly vindictive and unpleasant when Gary started expounding upon his discoveries, until that point there seemed to be a deal on the table.
I think Gary tried to staunch this with his release of information; he did this without realizing how grim and soulless the US judicial system really is, and about how much more pissed they would be to have some one break in and then after being caught go public with their discoveries.

He could well be fucked, literally and metaphorically.

@ Greg.
I agree that the central issue is what Gary discovered . The US government has been telling porkies to the public for 60 years .
It is about space exploation and who we are ,
Nasa is a fraud as documented by Richard Hoaglang in " Dark Mission " .
There are other issues : the disproportiante sentence for the " crime " and the wholesale spying that USA alphabet agencies inflict on the US citizen and the rest of the world .
I make it clear : spy agencies can break the law every day spying on the innocent public and collecting data , but a single person cannot do it to them ? I call it poetic justice . Gary should reveal to the world what he really found ,in order to embarass the criminals in charge of the US government and the drones in the UK .
I hope the EU does intervenes on the ground that Gray's life is in grave danger if he finishes up in the US Gulag . If the EU does not intervenes we will know how far the
New World Order puppeteers control reach .

I just love all those comments by the mindless who would have extradited Jews back to Hitler because "it was the law".

"Law", if it is to have ANY social justification must reflect a true cost/benefit ratio. To sentence someone to 60 years and threaten them with rape and torture for computer hacking is obscene.

Of course, those who believe in the death penalty for overdue library books will not agree. After all, they are the same ones who are truly disappointed that they were born too late to join Hitler's SS.

As Dr. Lassitter says The USA is a rogueState, and cannot by any moral standard expect Britain to handover a "hacker"to face what would most certainly be an extremely prejudiced court.

Should the British judiciary accede to the request, it must surely indicate that our administration has become subordinate to the"internationalists"currently subverting, and controlling the American administration.

What are they afraid of? That he may discover the next step in the Brzezinski Plan for American theft of the oil of the Middle East, and SE Asia?

The law in this case is an ass.

Anyone wishing to put Gary McKinnon in jail is also an ass.

Governments not having open and public policy regarding ET is simply short sighted and ridiculous. Of course, private factions may well have ET policy which can be summarised by:
"You must have all the information. You cannot tell the people."

People - wake up!

Gary McKinnon brought the US military's short comings to light and it is alarming how easily their allegedly secret information was accessed.

By Dan on August 2, 2008 8:39 PM
Oh Great!
Now the EU can be the good guy and show their immense value to mankind.
Does anyone else sense another scam going on here?

The EU is something the majority of Brits dismiss out of hand for good reasons. But yes, now we are hoping they will be the sensible voice that the British have let one of their own citizens so badly down for. I think the British courts are to scared to say no to the US political loop. I believe the British Government has tried to turn a blind eye to this case. It will come back to haunt them. If there is any conspiracy in Governments then they have found the ECHR loophole and get a 'get out of jail free' card in order to tell their masters in Washington that they didn't block extradition. Perhaps this is what it has been set up for.

McKinnon is just a pawn in political games.

Just to clarify for some people here: The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, is not an institution of the European Union.

It is a result of mutual ratification of the European Convention on Human Rights by what are now the 47 countries belonging to the Council of Europe, which includes all of the European Union ones plus a number of others.

It is sickening that we now wait on the European court of Human Rights to protect a British Citizen from being abused by a ridiculously one sided extradition treaty with the United States.

we can only hope that the ECHR provides a mechanism to re-inforce our sovereignty - which will be interesting for the anti-europe brigade...

Ive read all the comments left here and im very disapointed with the way in which many americans knowing that they have a corrupt and menacing regime in power, still would serve up another human being to slake its appetite.
1 Gary broke the law here in the UK first.
2 the extradition agreement is for terrorists.
3 The agreement came into existence AFTER he was arrested.

Validity of just ONE of those points is enough under proper and fair use of LAW to stop the process.
Im beginning to feel that because most Americans have the administrations dick so far up their asses and it has been there for so long,that they just cant think straight anymore.
Just because a law is there it does not mean it is right especially if to administer that law you have to break other laws to do it.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
Gary was threatened with rape in an american institution, now here in england we know about the american prison system where it goes without saying that if im bigger than you you drop your pants and bend over, im getting some.yaaahoooo!
The american administration is the biggest man in america and it seems that the american population walk round with their pants round their ankles just in case the man wants something.
Take it carefuly ooooh ouch.

i think that gary should be billed for a firewall for these computers he logged into, as they had no security passwords or any noticeable security at the time and the case closed. it seems to me it was a trap set for the likes of low tech hackers and amounts to entrapment by the authorities i have a firewall on my pc but governments & secret services have the means to still hack it if they want, if you leave doors to your home open and i look in side and take nothing then its not a crime, then i tell you by leaving a note for you i am a concerned citizen and have proven you are absent minded if you are a world power you have proven that you cannot handle simple security.

Hello everybody!
I think Gary wants to know the truth about ufo, and that's ok and i'm sure that a lot of people have the same doubt and Gary was the guy with all the habilities to do something like that.
If he wanted to make damage he would done it, so i think he should not be considered as a terrorist.
He wants to know the truth and i wonder if that's a crime?
Wish the best for Gary, he diserve to be free.
Sorry for my english.
Kisses from Argentina Gary.

To all of you "Don't-do-the-crime-if-you-can't-do-the-time," er uh "intelligent" americans on this post: does your tough-on-crime attitude extend to GW Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Mukasey, Chertoff, Brown, Rove, Libby, Stevens, Feith, Armitage, Delay, Bush Sr., Neal Bush, Ollie North, etc., etc., etc.? You must certainly want to see all of these people go to jail and suffer the consequences of their actions......riiiight? Oh, really? Gee, I thought you were all so tough on crime.

I have to say, sorry for my english.
My text is not clearly to understand, you may get/understand some things wrong maybe in my above text.

The man may have been done wrong. But a question has to be asked. If the role was reversed and it was a person in the USA who had hacked into some other countries main military computer, would the USA extradite that person to face charges. I suspect not!

Nothing long term (12-18 months)is going to happen to Gary.The USA will be bankrupt by this time, that or it will default on it's debt and become just another impoverished third world country,and will not have the funds to keep it's own prisoners incarcerated let alone any foreign ones.America is dead as a major world power,it's just forgotten to get it's self buried......hang in there Gary

I've followed this story for about a year now. Gary did not break anything that could not be fixed by a simple reboot. To say he destroyed government data or hardware is ludicrous.

It's the DOD's responsibility to be proactive about security on all their machines. It's obvious they are tying to make an example out of him and they must be afraid of what Gary really knows.

Gary basically made the DOD the laughing stock of the United States Security, maybe they left open their computers or unsecured to let outside informants access this data.

Basically, Gary found a flaw in security that was already left open on purpose that other countries gained access to this information.

Gary is the patsy.

That's my two cents.

Hola, soy de Chile y quiero decir que es totalmente injusto lo que hacen con este tipo que solo intento de saber la verdad que los norteamericanos esconden. He estado buscando informacion sobre lo que Gary supuestamente encontro y dice que encontro otro tipo de energia basado en la antigravedad, cosa que puede ser realmente cierta y que los EEUU tratan de esconder a como de lugar para no parar el uso del Petroleo.
Y mas aun que esconden sobre los extraterrestres que es casi un hecho que existen y lo siguen escondiendo.
Encuentro totalmente injusto su detencion y mas aun que lo quieran secar en una carcel 70 años, este tipo es un genio y debieran de adorar que gracias a el los EEUU deben hacer reforzado mas su seguridad informatica.
Saludos desde Chile y LIBEREN A GARY !!

Who is here moderating?
Why did he delete my message?

Anyone seen it? Right above my own message "August 3, 2008 3:01 PM".

Can anyone tell whats going on?

I'll typ it ALL OVER AGAIN, don't worry!!

Are we banned? text doesnt show up now?

Sir_anonymous, your message is there but is quite far up the list as there have been so many messages. I'll paste it here.

By Sir_anonymous on August 3, 2008 1:48 AM
Two important reasons why the USA is hiding the UFO stuff, i think:

First thought:
With the ufo technology you can have "Free energy", this means petrol companys as Shell, Esso,.. have to close. So they are against it.

Second thought:
The USA wants to be the leader of this planet EARTH in case of war (or whatever), and keeps the technology for their own.
But only a very bad man want it this way!

My english isnt good, but i can read all the information in my own language, thanks to this site:


Wil, i didnt mean that one. Its the message between the messages:

Bob F:
"To all of you "Don't-do-the-crime...."
and mine:
"I have to say, sorry for my english...."

I posted two messages, right above this one.
Its really gone.

Tried to post it again today, but still doesnt show up. Everything shows from me, only this one doesnt. someone must be against it, i don't know.

I have saved the message, have paste it here below, left out some parts. Its ok for me.


In Europe, the sweetener stevia may not be sold because the european union has it not authorized. Stevia is one of the best sweetener that there is. You find Stevia sweetener in nature shops, on the bottle "external use only" to have still be able to sell.
I always use it in my tea.
Prof. Dr. Jan M.C. GEUNS (Belgium) (see and other people from other countries have already tried to prove stevia's qualities to the European parliament. It has not helped, you might say, the European union did not want to hear!
You know that aspartame a toxic chemical product is? This one is supported by the pharmacists. Sucralose (sweetener) (pay atention: not sucrose) is a product that is in the list on the chemical products of the european union, and yet they sell it!
Most people doesnt know about this.
If you care about your health, do not buy these two products.

The same thing is with the Ufo technology, "free energy". This one doesnt pollute the air, good also for our future people on this earth planet.
But with "free energy", companies such as esso, shell, .. have to close.
Oil / gas / etc companies will lost their job.

lets get one thing straight here , , this guy read too much classified information and both countries will work together hand in hand on getting him behind bars and without the use of a court system .... in the next few weekes there will be nothing written about him in the papers . both countries will make sure of that. his life will be forgotten as well as his case... that i can assure you ....

I have been following the case on and off for years. While Gary has obviously done wrong, I am very worried at the terms of the extradition process now in place with the UK and the USA.
To be extradited evidence should surely be presented to a court of the land which can then have its merits argued in a court of law prior to the extradition. Without such a defense we are giving away the legal right of defense of the accused. Whoever passed this law should be ashamed of themselves. Its time, we set this straight.

For right now anyone who is accused of something can be extradited to the USA, the land of the free, without them having to present any evidence. So much for being innocent before being proved guilty. Gary could never recieve a fair trail in the US anyhow.

@ Sir an0nymou - your missing comment is in the spam moderation queue as a false positive due to a slightly aggressive spam moderation rule.

However when I read it, it still looked like spam because it has nothing to do with the Gary McKinnon extradition case - do try to keep on topic.

The moderation policy here lets most things through, even if people choose to criticise Gary's actions (I have done that myself many times), concentrating on removing (and officially complaining about) the threats of violence, prison rape fantasies and hatred against both UK and USA people, which some internet criminals try to post here.

Thanks fg, i know my message was not just an explanation. I couldnt take whats happening in the world, and turned me angry.

I was only trying to tell that the "usa" (or the BAD moneymakers) do (only) whatever they want.

So its "money talks dirty now, now that Gary looked into the case".
Nothing else than this (is guilty).

Have made a search and found some strange things.
It made me scare.
Look sure to the two first links

Extra, a site about UFO

Evening Standard Headlines Today 5th August.

Crucial Evidence Goes Missing In Case Of Gary McKinnon.

no password = no jail time

no password = Incompetence

What a sham. Absolute sham. Proof that the USA is pathetic and the UK bows to them. To hell with the lot of you UK and USA political puppets, power freaks and war mongers.

we must all bombard the government with emails and letters and telephone calls to the mps to stop this is a disgrace and an insult to the british public.

I'm still struck by the fact that Gary is an anagram for Gray and that Gary's step-dad is named Jay which is short for Jayrod - the name of the Extraterrestrial captured by the Americans at Roswell. I think that of the hundreds of foreign nationals entering U.S. military cyberspace, for years as fg has pointed out, Gary was selected and entrapped in order to serve as an example to users of the Internet of what the U.S. will do to anyone who opposes its cover-up of U.F.Os.

fg, what are Gary's thoughts on the Law Lords ruling against him? I hope that you post on this site, more of what Gary's doing and his thoughts. This may sound stupid, but, I hope that Gary starts working out with weights and putting in road work (long distance running, even if on a treadmill). It'll help his mind as well as his body.

Another thing, the current British government seems to have embraced the New World Order with a One World Government led by the U.S. I think that the European Union is more independent minded and will rule in Gary's favour. His loss with his own government must be a big blow, but, the E.U. could be a whole different case, instead of just an appeal of the case in the U.K.

In addition to Gary strengthening his mind by using his body through excersize, he should develope his mind directly through remote viewing (clairvoyance) and continuing to learn about extraterrestrials. Britons in the past have been imprisoned in foreign countries and when they returned, they were stronger and continued helping others.

In other words, fighting the U.S. and U.K., U.F.O. cover-up and injustice, is Gary's thing and I hope that he fights to the end, at least 40 more years, most of it in Britain.

Its said before that without a passwords everyone can acces the open folders. Is there something against the law to enter such ftp sites by only having the "non protected" files seen?:

For everyone with google (example) :
site:* ufo

3/4 of readers of VNUNet think Gary should not be extradited:

is proof that freedom of expression does not exist, we are in a cocoon, molded by the war in iraq, a false news as he spends much more horrible things in the world, but do not be afraid the sheep.

Gary is a type well, a heavy-duty misinformation, a resistant ufologique, someone who has done what we all want, namely vérity, know where our money is invested, we know who we are and who directs really .

Gary, ODH Tv (UFO In History Tv) is with you!
that the force be with you.

best regards

Gary might not go to America after all. Georgia just attacked Ossetia and Russia sent in her tanks. America is moving more forces to the Perian Gulf. It looks like Russia will wipe out British and American forces in the region. Washington won't be able to follow through on Gary.

Is this divine intervention on Gary's behalf or what?

Acts of War, Scott Ritter

look all you morons who think he is out of hollywood anyone could do this if you can type an ip to your router the mr men could do this . if you can type an ip to your router then network it then well that makes me an grade 1 a hacker i am a hacker to cause i ip and left open my network da dar . just think people he aint no super brain no password s was used no wep tsk encryption .so if well 10 people down our street got wifi with open on the bios well hay didildidel the cat had a fidel as long as i dont steal then i have seen there stuff . you dont buy a shed and hang your stuff on the line(thats what the us did wifi no but its just the same he dident know were he was till he logged in it could of been garbage dissposal so for those ho have wifi router open ie. no wep/encription thats what he did gret it.please some one who passed an exam edit . stop

The US courts have to exagerate the computer intrusion hugely because they're incredibly embarrased that they had literally no security.

No one has ever been extradited for computer mis-use so the US cranks up the charges to set a precedent for extraditing any hackers but they caught someone on a dial up machine because a university tipped them off, otherwise they wouldn never have noticed that Gary was there, even with doors wide open.

They are now putting out articles attempting to imply he's a cyber terrorist which is a huge joke.
The truth is that they never caught any of the serious hackers that regularly invade their systems because the US military computer guys are not up to it.
So they choose a guy on his own on a dial up machine that admitted to computer intrusion seven years ago and want to make an example of him.

How pathetic and they are now embarrasing themnselves even more by doing this.
You would think it was Osama Bin Forgotten that they were trying to extradite.
It would make much more sense for them to spend the money securing their computer systems, as according to their own staff, they've been wide open for twenty years and still are.

@ Honeybear - there are no US or British military forces in South Ossetia - most British or US Politicians probably could not even point out exactly where it is on a map.

I cannot see how this war could influence Gary's extradition case, one way or the other.

Just a thought: Maybe the rich people of usa are planning to save their own when the alien attacks, and no one has to know. How less people knows the better, because not much people does fit on building at the moon. Then money isnt the case. Or the boss from the nasa is an bad minded alien.

Is there any independence now threatened, ive read on this link?

Added a link above, here's the non-filtered version:

If you think about damages costs and wanted to know Garys other answers, read this:
(copied one question here)
"What about the damage you are said to have caused?"
McKinnon: What they call damage is really just them realizing that they have been accessed without authorization. Then they say things like I deleted 300 users, deleted systems files and such. That was one instance when I did a batch file to clean up all my stuff--I think once and only once, though perhaps I ran it on the root drive of the "c:" drive. But it certainly wasn't every machine I was on and, if you believe them, they talk about 94 networks being damaged.
(See the rest on the link, 2 pages (click next to see all)) :
(Here you can see a talk:



From Barcelona, FREE GARY!

we'll be welcoming Mr. McKinnon soon to America's most known resort island which is located just south of Florida. Hotel Guantanamo Bay, Here it's sunny all year round. The beaches are well guarded and the rooms are far apart for maximum privacy. The service is to die for.

The Lords agree you must take a vacation to America for all your hard work and countless hours performed unselfishly for the benefit of all mankind. Your fellow islanders must be so proud of you for elevating their awareness toward law,justice and alien. Tax money very well spent!

we just cant wait to see you. Our most attentive staffs will be ready to service you.

Hello, from Sunny Malta

I signed the petition to free Gary. As I write this comment I sit in an internet cafe with almost all the computer terminals turned off, albeit to save energy because of the high cost of fuel. Malta is not exactly a poor country, but neither is it a very rich one. This is Malta, which in 2004 joined the European Union-the so callled rich countries club, let alone the horrible problems that are being caused by high price oil in developing countries with the result that some people are starving.

Fertilizers are produced from oil....and high yield strains of seeds associated with the 'Green Revolution' in agriculture need more fertilizers than average.

While Gary may have made mistakes, he alleges that he had uncovered evidence of the supression of free energy technology. In that case who is the greater criminal? ....Gary, a lone hacker/whistleblower ....or certain cliques which have an interest in the petrochemicals monopoly which are not entirely representative of the US political system.

Let's put everything into proportion .....

Gary may have been looking for evidence of "free energy technology", but that does not mean that it actually exists, or that it is ever likely to exist.

Doesn't the whole concept flout the Second Law of Thermodynamics, in the same way as impossible Perpetual Motion machines ?

If it ever did exist, why would it not be used to create new classes of weapons before any peaceful applications - that is the way in which every new "dual use" technology has been developed in the past.

Unless there are "star wars" death rays, and bombs more powerful than nuclear ones, actually being deployed and used, then "free energy technology" is certainly not in the hands of the US (or any other) military industrial complex.

It is all connected.

The battle between David and Goliath
Full story:

(Words and Music by Bob Dylan)
1983 Special Rider Music
What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully
Full story:

Just imagine, what can happen?

Have a nice day Gary!

Zero point energy does not exist? .....just go through David Wilcock's material, Mr Kosol Ouch's research or have a look at Professor John Searle's research experiments (by the way documented on video).

When ignorance is bliss, it is foolish to be wise.

The real physical Casimir effect zero point energy is not the same as mythical "free energy"

From my earlier comment, here the direct link to all the information that was available for public from government documents, in this file/ebook, collected by M McDonnough.

Have posted a link double, it was posted earlier, sorry for that.

Nice to see the Americans have been logging on. Not. Nevermind. Garys fight isn't just about his alleged crime(s), it's about an unfair and biased extradition treaty that equates in essence to the British govt. giving American citizens more rights than British citizens.

We'll get this treaty either torn up or amended so that U.S. citizens who 'hack' from a remote location can be extradited without evidence.


'SOME' (American citizens?) ARE NOT MORE EQUAL THAN 'OTHERS' (British citizens.)

As fg so wisely said:
The huge propaganda victory which the current US Government handed over to their enemies, by flouting the US Constitution and the normal civilian justicesystem, by establishing the Guantanamo Bay concentration camp, has ruined the reputation of the United States justice system internationally.

Gary's actions are something which he sincerely regrets but he is much less of a disgrace than the negligent, incompetent, corrupt or actively treacherous senior US Military Officers, Department of Defense officials, private sector Defense Contractors and Politicians, who were supposed to be managing, auditing and reviewing the US Military computer systems, who failed to notice or to act on the elementary systems configuration mistake which left thousands of computers vulnerable.

This would have been a bad enough scandal if the mistake had happened and was detected and corrected at the next regular security audit, but it was allowed to persist not for days or weeks, but for several years

US patriots and taxpayers should be hunting down those people who were responsible for such mismanagement or perhaps deliberate corruption or treason, and making sure that they are removed from any positions of power or influence over current military systems.

A sensible American journalist recently wrote "that he is amazed that the US government want to bring this case to America as it will expose the total lack of security and make fools of them but in his words, they will play
with matches"

Why do the Nasa call human aliens??

example on this wap login page:
(scrol Citizenship)

@ sir anonymous - "Resident Alien" is a legal term applied to citizens of foreign countries who have been granted work or residence visas in the USA.

What has this got to do with Gary McKinnon's extradition case ?

Fg; Sorry, i know this has nothing to do with Garys case. lol, i could find an anwser myself.

If youre the mod here, may delete/edit such of my messages, i'm happy with that now.
Thank you

The yanks have a cheek. The are the dirtiest, most criminal regime on the planet...and maybe others too! They do nothing about other hackers and are simply allowed to take who they want without providing one shred of evidence. Good the Russians are now awake. The criminal yanks are not saying much are they. For the brainwashed who believe the yanks are right...plug yourself back into the matrix asap.

@ Potr - the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

The US Government bureaucracy and politicians are bad enough, but they are angels compared with their Russian equivalents.

The Russian military attacks on Georgia are accompanied by Distributed Denial of Service and other attacks against the Georgian Government websites etc.

Even if these are not being conducted directly on the orders of the Kremlin, qui bono ?

No doubt Putin's Nashi are claiming some of the "patriotic" credit for this, as they did with the recent "cyber attacks" on Estonia.

They are also probably trying their luck against US Government systems.

Imagine if this situation had happened before Gary McKinnon's activities highlighted the huge weaknesses in the US Military systems ?

Why the hell we have a bunch of elite toffs still able to make decisions on behalf of british justice i do not know - i wonder how much about computers these people know ?

Lord Scott of Foscote

Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers

Baroness Hale of Richmond

Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood

Lord Neuberger of Abbotsbury

none id wager...

and what someone above said resonates...
just look at the american opinion here on these comments - its the same the whole net over - id say americans are the worst virus ever to hit the internet and i cant understand why mcafee et al havent released an update to inoculate against them....

how and who can we speak to about this gross miscarriage of justice - this is absolutely outrageous. no more outrageous than any other one though - of which there are probably a thousand a day at least. i work in computer security myself and its easy to see gary meant no harm.... poor dude. get in touch gary - ill hide you in my cupboard - theyll never take you away!

Personally I would like a link to a complete and succinct firsthand summary of all the UFO etc. related stuff he found.

Making a documentary out of that would pay his legal bills and keep him in the public eye enough to avoid any... accidents.

The snotty comments from the Yanks here are typical of the Holier than thou attitude that some have (not all).
Why were the "Friendly Fire" American servicemen not brought forward to answer to and face the families of the British servicemen that they killed. The American government stood up and protected their people. So the British government should be doing the same for Gary (He ought to be given a job testing these systems). At least he has no BLOOD on his hands. Unlike others!
The Yanks ought to be paying Gary to help them make a better job of the security they have. Where did they buy it from? MICROSOFT maybe. No wonder Bill has retired (Before the s**t hits the fan).

It is trivial if he meant harm or not. The point that he did what he did is the crime. Whether he did it for self interest or to test his abilities or even if he was paid (we know he was ) all those do not matter. It is plain and simple he has committed a crime. He knew where he was going and what he was trying to view and get information on. He didn't google alien life or USA government secret files. He did some work to get access to get in. Kristian if you work in network security then you know well no matter what

@ Juben

The point that he did what he did is the crime.

Yes, but that is not the only point to consider.

There is the fundamental principle of proof beyond reasonable doubt, on the basis of actual, testable evidence, presented during a fair trial.

None of this has happened yet, only Extradition proceedings, where no challenge to the allegations, nor to any actual evidence, have been allowed.

There is also the question of British sovereignty, under UK law , which applies at least equally to US law in this case, and the likelihood of an unfair trial in the USA, and , by civilised European country standards, the disproportionately long prison sentences demanded by the US prosecutors.

Whether he did it for self interest or to test his abilities or even if he was paid (we know he was )

Really ? What proof do you have of any such payments ?

Who are the "we" to which your refer ?

The US Prosecutors stated that, Gary was working alone.

sorry FG meant to say (we(people on this forum) know he wasn't). He has admitted to entering the site, which no way or shape or form is legal unless he was authorized to do so. Which he has also admitted that no one gave him permission.

If I leave my house door open doesn't mean you can enter much less check whats on my kitchen table, it is trespassing. US prosecutors can say a million years but he does not decide that. He can say anything he wants but the prosecutor nor military decide this matter. If he does make it over to the US then I do not think he will go through a standard trial where a "group of your peers" decide if you are guilty or not guilty. I'm not sure how his case will be decided. He did say he did it whether with ill or good intent is not the point. He may get white collar crime jail like wesley snipes and other people who skip out on taxes compared to a maximum security federal prison.

(from tv) "us autorities said he sabotaged defense documents and that makes him a terrorist.
So if he's convicted he gets 70 years."

- - - -

Still they can't explain this crime, because the subject is changing from A - B - etc.
If i was a lord, i had just turn my back, to face this (lame) talk.
You watch with your eyes in a case and use your mind, not with your nose.

In this case are only noses used!


It is trivial if he meant harm or not. The point that he did what he did is the crime. Whether he did it for self interest or to test his abilities or even if he was paid (we know he was ) all those do not matter. It is plain and simple he has committed a crime. He knew where he was going and what he was trying to view and get information on. He didn't google alien life or USA government secret files. He did some work to get access to get in. Kristian if you work in network security then you know well no matter what

it is not trivial juben
just because i work in computer security does nt mean i agree with all the awful repressive laws made by govenments. im an anarchist mate!i dont believe in laws anyway and i find all this justice business a bit of a larf - it means nothing and only rich people get true justice. a bunch of elite toffs who know jack about computers should never be made to deliberate this serious matter. i am totally against hackers getting big sentences cos 1) i am one in theory (ethical of course :) 2) you are simply pressing keys on a keyboard - this is a totally different 'crime' to ripping someones heart out or perhaps raping a fourteen year old girl and then killing her whole family (actual event by a US soldier in iraq) - to be honest they are incredibly stupid if they have left a blank password and its their own fault really - if it was me judging i would say - go away USA you left the door open - honestly. this guy is not really a hacker he doesnt seem to know much from his descriptions. this is a big overblown piece of crap by the USA (again as if we havent had enough of them embelishing facts, oops iraq??)


no password = no jail time

no password = Incompetence

YES! exactly.

@Tyler: you need to sort out your life and fast. Anyone expression opinions such as you do is not contributing to a debate but skewing things according to your own twisted insides. For everyone here I'm ashamed of what you wrote.

Time to close this comment thread - it is getting a bit cumbersome unless you have a fast Internet connection.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute to this thread, both to those in support of Gary, and also those people who raised valid points of view against him.

Gary McKinnon is facing extradition to the USA under the controversial Extradition Act 2003, without any prima facie evidence or charges brought against him in a UK court. Try him here in the UK, under UK law.

Write in support of Gary

If you feel strongly enough that Gary McKinnon should not be extradited to the USA, but should be tried here in Britain, then there are various people you can write to.

Firstly you can write to us here at We will pass your messages of support on to Gary, and publicise this support to the media and to the politicians.

You can post anonymously here on this blog, but please be polite. Alternatively you can send us emails, but if you want a reply and the latest news, then you need to use a valid email address.

You can write to your Member of Parliament via WriteToThem

If your Member of Parliament has not already done so, then please ask them to sign

Early Day Motion 2388 sponsored by David Burrowes MP

(Previously, EDM 241 sponnsored by the then Conservative MP and now Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, also gathered a large number of MP's signatures opposed to the unfair Extradition Act 2003 and the Extradition Treaty with the USA).

You can also write to David Blunkett Charles Clarke John Reid Jacqui Smith Alan Johnson Theresa May who is now the 6th Home Secretary who has had the responsibility for Gary McKinnon's extradition case:

You can send an email public.enquiries@ or a letter to:

Home Secretary
Rt Hon. Theresa May MP
c/o Direct Communications Unit
Home Office
2 Marsham Street
London SW1P 4DF

Home Office Contact Us page

Write to US President Barack Obama - the official website of the President of the Umited States of America, Barack Obama.

"President Obama is committed to creating the most open and accessible administration in American history. To send questions, comments, concerns, or well-wishes to the President or his staff, please use the form below:"

Contact the White House web message form.

Please use this form to remind them just how counterproductive, and damaging to US national interests, especially to their supposedly changed international reputation, putting Gary McKinnon on trial in the USA would be.

Extradition Watch


Extradition Watch campaign to reform the Extradition Act 2003 by Liberty Human Rights .

You can download a PDF Paper Aeroplane and then photograph it, in support of Gary McKinnon

Donation via PayPal

Click on the PayPal Donations button above, to make a secure credit card or direct debit or PayPal account financial contribution to help support this blog website.

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Comments Policy

This blog operates a reasonably tolerant blog comments policy.

You are free to condemn Gary McKinnon's past stupidity, and to highlight the need for appropriate, proportionate criminal justice, all of which Gary accepts.

Please try to be polite (although you will not be banned simply for the odd expletive).

Do try to keep on topic

If you feel the need to publicise lots of URLs (especially without explanation), or lengthy articles, not directly related to Gary McKinnon's extradition case, then link to your own blog article, otherwise your comment will be filtered out as spam.

You would be very wise to read the small print of the Internet Acceptable Use Policy applied by your Internet Service Provider, company or educational institution etc. and refrain from threats or libel (including unsubstantiated allegations without any real evidence) or expressions of hatred etc. against Gary, his family or supporters, or even against groups people or organisations in the United States of America or the United Kingdom etc.

Recent Comments

  • fg: Time to close this comment thread - it is getting read more
  • Kourian: @Tyler: you need to sort out your life and fast. read more
  • Krisitan Weston: @north no password = no jail time no password = read more
  • Kristian Weston: @juben It is trivial if he meant harm or not. read more
  • non anonymous: (from tv) "us autorities said he sabotaged defense documents and read more
  • Juben: sorry FG meant to say (we(people on this forum) know read more
  • fg: @ Juben The point that he did what he did read more
  • Juben: It is trivial if he meant harm or not. The read more
  • Steve: The snotty comments from the Yanks here are typical of read more
  • Jonathan Nolan: Personally I would like a link to a complete and read more
  • Kristian Weston: Why the hell we have a bunch of elite toffs read more
  • anon: @ Potr - the enemy of your enemy is not read more
  • Potr: The yanks have a cheek. The are the dirtiest, most read more
  • sir anonymous: Fg; Sorry, i know this has nothing to do with read more
  • fg: @ sir anonymous - "Resident Alien" is a legal term read more

Photos of Gary


Gary_McKinnon_Bow_Street_Magistrates_24_Nov_2005_600.jpg Gary McKinnon outside Bow Street Magistrates' Court, London, 24th November 2005

Bow_Street_Magistrates_Gary_McKinnon_24_Nov_2005_600.jpg Gary McKinnon outside Bow Street Magistrates' Court, London, 24th November 2005

Gary_McKinnon_Janis_Sharp_15Jan2009_150min.jpg Gary McKinnon and his mother Janis Sharp at the Doughty Street Chambers press conference 15 January 2009

Gary McKinnon and his mother Janis Sharp at the Doughty Street Chambers press conference 15 January 2009 (click the image for a larger version in a new window)

gary-janis-mayday_150.jpg Gary McKinnon and his mother Janis Sharp at the May Day Bank Holioday 2010 balloon release event event near the Houses of Parliament

Gary McKinnon and his mother Janis Sharp at the May Day Bank Holiday 2010 balloon release event event near the Houses of Parliament (click the image for a larger version in a new window)

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Gary McKinnon is facing extradition to the USA under the controversial Extradition Act 2003, <strong>without any prima facie evidence</strong> or charges brought against him in a UK court. Try him here in the UK, under UK law.

Gary McKinnon is facing extradition to the USA under the controversial Extradition Act 2003, without any prima facie evidence or charges brought against him in a UK court. Try him here in the UK, under UK law.

Thanks to for hosting one of these links locally on their servers. The over half a million hits this site took in 24 hours when they were linking directly, is welcome publicity, but was costing us a lot of bandwidth !

About this blog

This blog website is intended to support British citizen Gary McKinnon, who is facing "fast track" extradition to the USA (after over five six seven eight nine ten years since his initial arrest !). Gary was indicted by a US court in November 2002, accused of "hacking" into over 90 US Military computer systems from here in the UK. The unjust treatment of British citizens (and others) when facing the might of the US Military "justice" system, which practices detention without trial in Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere, and stands accused of making use of torture by allied regimes ("extraordinary rendition") is an ongoing scandal. It cannot be excused even by a "war on terror". It seems only just that Gary should face any charges in a British court, and to serve any sentence, if he is found guilty, in a British prison. N.B. With the good news that Gary will not now be extradited to the USA, this blog will continue to raise awareness of the issues raised by Gary's case and others who have suffered unjustly through the UK's one sided extradition arrangements with the USA and to a lesser extent, Europe.

Email Contact

Please feel free to email us your views about this blog, or news about the issues it tries to comment on:

Download our PGP Public Encryption Key, if you want to make use of it to send us anything confidential.

N.B. Gary McKinnon was "not allowed to use any computer connected to the internet", as part of his bail conditions.

Is anyone more likely to have any email accounts he dared to use, monitored by the UK and US authorities ?

If you are a tv or radio or print journalist, or a freelance writer or documentary film maker, wanting to interview Gary, please include some full contact details and a contact phone number, and we will pass on your request to Gary's family.

Gary McKinnon offers Search Engine Optimisation


Gary McKinnon is now offering low cost Search Engine Optimisation services


Follow Gary's mother on Twitter


Gary McKinnon's mother, Janis Sharp is indefatigable in support of her son, and is now using Twitter to help to keep friends and supporters informed. You can follow her "tweets" at: #TweetsStorm's in support of Gary Mckinnon.

Media Links and Videos

Links to media interviews and video clips about Gary McKinnon's extradition case, featuring Gary, his mother Janis Sharpe and other supporters, can be found at:

Petitions in support of Gary McKinnon and others

Several people have expressed interest in "signing a petition" in support of Gary's plight.

N.B. the anti-road pricing / snooping petition on the Number 10 Downing Street website achieved 1,791,942 signatures, but this was rubbished and ignored by the Labour Government under Tony Blair, so do not expect too much of what will inevitably be much smaller petitions in support of Gary McKinnon.

This PledgeBank Pledge (not quite the same as a traditional petition), resulted in lots of people actua;lly taking the time and trouble to write to the then Home Secretary John Reid - so many that the Home Office stopped sending back indfividual replies.

This Pledge closed on 8th June 2006, and attracted 745 pledge signatures.

People have petitoned the Prime Minister (Tony Blair): GaryMcKinnon/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Stop the extradition to the US of accused hacker Gary McKinnon.

This petition closed on 27 August 2007 with 876 Signatures.

There is a petition on a web petitons site, which is open for signature:

Stop the extradition of Gary McKinnon to the United States

We the undersigned urge Gordon Brown and the UK Government to consider the evidence and if appropriate prosecute Gary McKinnon, an Asperger Syndrome sufferer, in UK courts rather than allow him to be extradited to the US for offences relating to accessing US Government computers in 2001.

There is another current No 10 Downing Street website Petition to the Prime Minister (Gordon Brown):

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Scrap the US/UK extradition treaty

Another Petiton (August 2009): Sign up 4 Gary McKinnon:

We, the undersigned, call on the Prime Minster Of the UK and Alan Johnson and the UK Government, for Gary to be tried in the UK- FREE GARY.

Petition to Stop the Gary McKinnon extradition to the United States (November 24th 2009)

We the undersigned urge Gordon Brown and the UK Government to consider the evidence and if appropriate prosecute Gary McKinnon, an Asperger Syndrome sufferer, in UK courts rather than allow him to be extradited to the US for offences relating to accessing US Government computers in 2001.

Blog Links

Spy Blog - Privacy and Civil Liberties commentary and campaigns

Rat's Blog - The Reverend Rat comments on London street life and technology

Dr. K's blog - Hacker, Author, Musician, Philosopher

Legal Links

Kaim Todner - solicitors

November 2002 Grand Jury Indictment (.pdf)

November 2002 Grand Jury Indictment with all the "censored" IP addresses revealed by "cut and paste".

Virginia Indictment - November 2002 Department of Justice press release

New Jersey Indictment - November 2002 Department of Justice press release

New Jersey indictment - full text

Military Commission Order No. 1 (.pdf) - signed by President George W. Bush, March 21st 2002.

Extradition Act 2003

Computer Misuse Act 1990

Read the Foreign & Commonwealth Office official online  and printed copies of the unbalanced USA - UK Extradition Treaty - it even uses American English words and spellings e.g "offenses" and "authorize" ! Extradition Treaty between the UK and the United States of America with Exchange of Notes Presented to Parliament: June 2007 (.pdf)

Statewatch's analysis of the civil rights defects in the UK-US Extradition treaty

Oral Evidence on UK-US Extradition Treaty given to the House of Commons Select Committee on Home Affairs on 22nd November 2005 given by Senior District Judge Tim Workman; Ms Sally Ireland, Senior Legal Officer, JUSTICE; Andy Burnham MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office

International Extradition Blog - by McNabb Associates a law firm that specialises in international extradition cases.

The Appeal Court Judgement issued on 3rd April 2007 is now online via the BAILII database

The House of Lords Judgment - 30th July 2008:

McKinnon (Appellant) v Government of the United States of America (Respondents) and another

Gary McKinnon's statement to the Director of Public Prosecutions, January 2009, published by Computer Weekly: US took 39 months to demand McKinnon's extradition.

McKinnon v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2009] EWHC 170 (Admin) (23 January 2009) - Oral Hearing which allowed a Judicial review on the Asperger's Syndrome aspects of the case, to be held some time after 16th March 2009

Computer Weekly have published Crown Prosecution Service Review Note 3, which explains some of the reasons why the CPS found insufficient evidence to prosecute Gary in the UK, including some inadmissable hearsay, and doubts that some of the alleged computer foresnic evidence was up to the ACPO guidlines for ensuring an untampered chain of evidence, and doubts about the unproven amount of alleged financial damage being claimed.

The British and Irish Legal Information Institute have published the text of the two combined Judicial Review Judgments made against Gary McKinnon which were handed down on Friday 31st July 2009:

Lord Justice Stanley Burnton and Mr. Justice Wilkie's refusal to allow Gary McKinnon's case to be certified to go up to the Supreme Court on appeal,handed down on Friday 9th October 2009.

McKinnon, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for Home Affairs [2009] EWHC 2449 (Admin) (09 October 2009) URL: Cite as: [2009] EWHC 2449 (Admin)

Other Links

London 2600 - open monthly meeting which discusses IT Security and Technology etc., from both sides of the fence.

Egypt 2600 - just like London 2600, but in Egypt, also interested in the Gary McKinnon's case.

School of the Americas Watch - information on the notorious "School of the Americas" renamed to the "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation" in Fort Benning, Georgia.

The Disclosure Project serious research about possible UFOs

Wikipedia entry for Gary McKinnon - has links to several media interviews etc.

Scottish Human Rights website inspired by thinking about Gary McKinnon's case, and realising that similar things could so easily happen to you. The law in Scotland is somewhat different from the rest of the United Kingdom.

Free Babar Ahmad - another British (Muslim) IT worker, also facing extradition to the USA, also at risk of a Military Tribunal. - campaign support for the Enron / NatWest 3 bankers - David Bermingham, Giles Darby and Gary Mulgrew facing extradition extradited to the USA for alleged crimes committed in the UK.

Stop the Extradition of Sean Garland - an Irish Republican politician arrested in Belfast, also facing extradition to the USA for alleged crimes committed in the UK or in Russia. - petiton Labour MPs to support the amendments to the Extradition Act 2003 passed by the House of Lords to the Police and Justice Bill, when it comes before the House of Commons at Report Stage on the 9th and 10th of October 2006. About 50 Labour MPs are required, as all of the Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and most of the other minor Opposition parties are committed to support these amendments.

Howes Family Extradition Fight - amother extraordinary extradition case to the USA.

Financial appeal to sue the UK Government - Ross Hemsworth, an online radio presenter of paranormal and UFO investigations, is trying to taise £5000 to initiate legal proceedings, with the help of top human rights law firm Bindmans LLP, against the Home Secretary, to "challenge the government's refusal to review the unjust and one-sided extradition treaty with the USA." - support website for Gary McKinnon by Ed Johnson.

Gary the musician

Gary McKinnon is, amongst other things, a musician and songwriter.

You can download a couple of his songs from the low budget film Lunar Girl which was produced in 2001.

The video from this film of Only Fool, still available on YouTube, was very popular on MySpace, until it got censored.

How not to research a thesis on Gary McKinnon

This blog tries to be helpful to journalists, documenatry film makers, book researchers etc. who are researching the background of the Gary McKinnon extradition story.

For those academic thesis supervisors using search engines or academic plagiarism detection tools, here is an example of how not to "research" a thesis or dissertation about the Gary McKinnon extradition case.

See the comments by "Eye4Lies" in the comments on starting at House of Lords Judgment against Gary McKinnon now online and again at European Court of Human Rights to hear Gary McKinnon's application against extradition to the USA on 28th August 2008