London Autistic Rights Movement - demonstration in support of Gary McKinnon - 4pm Sunday 28th September 2008, US Embassy, Grosvenor Square, London - UPDATED details


The London Autistic Rights Movement is organising a demonstration in support of recently diagnosed Asperger's syndrome sufferer Gary McKinnon, who is facing imminent extradition to the United States of America, rather than facing a UK court, for his alleged computer hacking activities over 6 years ago.

Date: Sunday 28th September

Time: 4 pm - 5pm


Embassy of the United States of America,
24 Grosvenor Square

Location Maps:

Map on the US Embassy website map

Nearest Public Toilets:

Westminster Council publish an online map of their Public Toilet locations:

The nearest Public Toilet is at the Oxford Street end of Balderton Street - about 2 blocks North of the middle of Grosvenor Square - equivalent in distance to the West - East length of Grosvenor Square itself.

Name: Balderton Street Information: Number: 42 Wheelchair Access: Yes Type: APC Gender: M/F Opening Times: 24hrs Baby: No Disabled Access: Yes

Public Transport:

Nearest Tube stations are Marble Arch and Bond Street
Bus routes 148 and 14A along Park Lane

Press and Media Contact: - Anya

Use the comments below or email us here at (using our PGP Encryption Key if you know how) and we will pass on media enquiries to the organisers

Although the US Embassy is not within the SOCPA Designated Area, like the Home Office, it is obviously one of the top potential terrorist targets in Europe, let alone the UK, so there are armed Police guards (armed with semi-automatic assault rifles / sub machine guns etc.).

Dear All,

I am now the Police Liaison person for the protest on Sunday, or "steward" to use their term.

We have permission from the Metropolitan police in writing to protest peacefully in a dedicated enclosure outside the US embassy from 4-5pm.

I've spoken with the Met police and there are some guidelines that we ALL need to follow:

There will be 3 police officers, Seargeant Rudlin-Jones and also 2 PCs - looking after us. All are autism trained.

We ' ll be in a dedicated enclosure, made up of make shift barriers, right in front of the Embassy.


We MUST stay inside this enclosure at all times.

The 'Pen' area - not to imprison us but because police have duty to protect embassies and ensure that non-protesting members of the public can move around us freely. It is important that we keep to designated pen area.

If someone wants to leave pen area, for whatever reason, they must TELL ME FIRST and I will let the police know so that they are aware of what is happening and that the person going for a walk is not up to no good.

We are not allowed to walk around or towards the Embassy so people who are leaving the pen area at any time of the protest (having spoken to me first) should be directed to walk *away* from the Embassy

There will be armed police - this normal procedure for the US embassy and not because of us or anything we need to be concerned about.

DO NOT approach the armed officers. They are doing their job and if any kind of "altercation" occurs the police officers have a duty to protect the armed officers so it would cause potential difficulties and I'm sure none of us want it to come to that.

If the police feel that someone is doing something they are not comfortable with, they will speak to me first and then I will speak to the relevant person about it. So if I ask anyone to stop doing something, or I ask you a question about why you are doing something, PLEASE do not take it personally. I just want us all to have a peaceful day and adhere to the rules that the Met Police have given us.

I will be wearing a fluorescent yellow jacket on the day (at the request of the Met Police) so you will all be able to spot me very easily!

The plan is for us to arrive in the pen area outside the US Embassy (I'm sure it will be very noticeable) by 4pm so that we can start our protest on time.

I will arrive there early - around 3.30pm, so if you're not sure where to go, look out for a girl in a fluorescent yellow jacket. If anyone gets totally lost, my mobile is

[mobile phone number available to the media via]

Sorry to sound all bossy in this email - I hope you understand that I just want to make everyone aware of the rules and my 'bossy' tone in this message is not meant offensively or arrogantly in any way and I hope you will forgive me. I just want it all to go smoothly and for it to be a very positive experience for us.

Many thanks,


Some tips and advice about what to bring and what not to bring to the demonstration:


Amateur and even professional press photographers are all too frequently illegally harassed by jobsworth public officials and security guards, partly as a result of the Home Office's "climate of fear" anti-terrorism propaganda.

There are no laws which prevent you taking photos at the demonstration (ideally, if it is to have any effect, the mainstream media should be present), and the US Embassy is not anything special as a building, except that it is the sovereign territory of our major ally.

No Police Community Support Officer or private security guard or any US Embassy staff (outside of the Embassy grounds) has any power to seize your camera or mobile camera phone.

Even if you are arrested, the Police Constables (not PCSOs or private security guards who have no powers of arrest) have no power to delete digital photos etc. even if they have seized your camera or mobile phone, since that would be tampering with evidence.

Conversely, there are no laws to prevent the Police or security guards from taking photos or video of you, either.

Terrorism Stop and Search harassment

All of London within the M25 orbital motorway appears to be an area where Police constables in uniform (and Police Community Support Officers in uniform, but only under the direct supervision of a Police Constable, not on their own), can conduct Terrorism Act 2000 section 44 stops and searches, without reasonable suspicion.

The US Embassy is one of the top terrorist targets in Europe, let alone the UK, and so it does have armed Police guards.

The Metropolitan Police Constables in Uniform (*not* any plain clothes police) can stop you and search you, supposedly for weapons or explosives or anything that might be used for terrorism (i.e. just about anything). Despite tens of thousands of such stops and searches, they have never caught a real terrorist as a result.

If you are stopped and searched under normal Police powers, where there is some "reasonable suspicion", then you do have to give your name and address. If you refuse to do so on the street, then you will be dragged back to a Police station for fingerprint etc. checks on your identity

If you are stopped and searched under Terrorism Act section 44, without reasonable suspicion, then you do not have to give your name and address.

You have to be given a Stop and Search form, stating where, when, and by whom you have been stopped, and under what law. However, if you do not demand one, then you will not necessarily be given such a form.

What the Police and PCSOs often try to do, during such searches, is to copy, or at least rifle through, any wallet or notebook or mobile phone address books, credit cards etc. which you might have on your person , so do not bring private stuff with you on such a demonstration.

What to bring on a demonstration

  • A sense of humour.

  • Several friends and supporters.

  • Press and Broadcast journalists and reporters.

  • Posters, banners, leaflets, petitions etc.

  • If you smoke, something to collect and extinguish your cigarette butts - Westminster Council bylaws and Government Anti-social behaviour laws and policies, could allow various public officials to slap you with a £60 Fixed Penalty Notice for littering if you throw you cigarette butt onto the ground.

  • Something (non-alcoholic) to drink and eat etc.

  • An umbrella (summer is over).

  • Cameras and video recorders

  • Spare batteries and USB or other memory devices for digital cameras and mobile phone cameras.

  • Contact details of firms of legal solicitors who deal with human rights issues and arrests at demonstrations e.g. Bindmans - telephone: 020 7833 4433 or Kaim Todner - telephone: 020 7353 6660 (Gary McKinnon's solicitors)

  • N.B. Unlike the demonstration at the Home Office, loudspeakers / loud hailers etc. are not banned in Grosvenor Square. (non-amplified megaphones are not banned in either place)

What NOT to bring to a demonstration

  • Alcohol - even Police Community Support Officers now have powers to confiscate alcohol within a Dispersal Zone. All of the London boroughs of Westminster and Camden are now such Dispersal Zones.

  • Being seen to be drinking alcohol on Transport for London Tubes or Buses is also now banned.

  • Illegal drugs - obviously.

  • Personal address and contact books or Mobile Phones or Personal Digital Assistants containing contact names, addresses, email, phone etc. details - jobsworth PCSOs and Police constables often attempt to rifle through these, during "stops and searches", even though they often have no proper legal power to do so.

    If you must bring your normal mobile phone with you, then you should set a security PIN code, for both for the power on and keyboard locks, which might prevent arbitrary snooping, but which will not, of course, prevent forensic examination of the phone if you are arrested.


Hi All,

My name is Richard D. Hall and I run the website, a website dedicated to finding the truth behind the UFO mystery. I am also an IT consultant. I have done many radio interviews and I am going on BBC Radio Newcastle on Monday 22nd September and will be mentioning Gary, explaining and supporting his case. I am seeking some up do date information on the case, does anybody know if a date has been set for Garys travel to America, or the start of a trial?

Richard D. Hall

Hi Richard

I'm afraid we have had no news from the Home Office, a decision could be made any day and therefore no dates have been mentioned.

Thank you for all your support.

Hi Richard,

the following link has the most recent Update published citing the steps Gary's solicitor is taking and intends to take:

Gary has always denied causing the alleged damage that the American prosecutors presented to the Law Lords as "Facts".
A few weeks ago America changed the law so that they no longer have to prove damage on military computers. Now doesn't that speak volumes?
A Tad too convenient.


Richard D Hall, a "ufologist" and IT expert, is doing outstanding work on his radio interviews bringing to people's attention, amongst other things, "The Disclosure Project" testimonies which led Gary into all this in the first place, and it is really excellent that he is to talk about Gary and his case on his next radio show. As for the "Edge TV" doc being removed from MySpace, not surprising. The Hawes family, also facing extradition to the US under this "treaty", also had their video similarly removed from that Site. People will have to draw their own conclusions. Good luck with the "Autistic Rights Movement" demo and, again, sorry not be there. Stay Sunny!

good luck gary
frum canada

I find it alarming that there appears to be an internet news black out re-Gary. The Edge documentary has disappeared or says "error" when you try to access it, this includes the cache.

The link to a daily record article re-Gary is the same.

This has never happened so blatantly up until now and I find it pretty worrying.

Up until now the internet was full of comment reflecting both sides of the argument. For a body to remove one side of the argument is a sure sign that our "democracy" is on extremely shaky ground.

Hopefully the documentary and news stories will re-appear.

dont let the yanks bully you garry . like they do every one else.looks to me like they want to lock you up for good m8, so you cant tell the truth of what you saw. good luck .

J replied to comment from Richard Hall | September 18, 2008 4:56 PM:
A few weeks ago America changed the law so that they no longer have to prove damage on military computers. Now doesn't that speak volumes?
A Tad too convenient.

What speaks volumes is all of the posts like this on this site. People coming up with all sorts of drivel to support their bizarre conspiracy theories.

I explained back in June that the U.S. did not need to prove damages. (See

Contrary to your contentions, the law was changed in October 2001 . . .

PUBLIC LAW 107-56 [H.R. 3162]
OCT. 26, 2001

. . .


(a) Clarification of Protection of Protected Computers.--Section 1030(a)(5) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) by inserting "(i)" after "(A)";

(2) by redesignating subparagraphs (B) and (C) as clauses (ii) and (iii), respectively;

(3) by adding "and" at the end of clause (iii), as so redesignated; and

(4) by adding at the end the following:

"(B) by conduct described in clause (i), (ii), or (iii) of subparagraph (A), caused (or, in the case of an attempted offense, would, if completed, have caused)--

"(i) loss to 1 or more persons during any 1-year period (and, for purposes of an investigation, prosecution, or other proceeding brought by the United States only, loss resulting from a related course of conduct affecting 1 or more other protected computers) aggregating at least $ 5,000 in value;

"(ii) the modification or impairment, or potential modification or impairment, of the medical examination, diagnosis, treatment, or care of 1 or more individuals;

"(iii) physical injury to any person;

"(iv) a threat to public health or safety; or

"(v) damage affecting a computer system used by or for a government entity in furtherance of the administration of justice, national defense, or national security;".

A question was asked a while back as to why noone claiming to be from various groups posted on this site. Perhaps because there is no point in discussing things with zealots, of which this site is chock full? Zealots ignore logic, facts, and anything else that contradicts their beliefs. There is no way to persuade such people that the Earth is not flat, that men actually landed on the moon, or that the entire U.S. Government is not working around the clock to put Gary McKinnon in jail for the remainder of his lifetime. Whenever someone brings up some countervailing point here, some zealot makes up a new 'fact' in order to explain it away as some further conspiracy. So don't expect a lot of reasoned posts from those with opposing viewpoints, we'll just amuse ourselves by reading your ever-more-entertaining explanations and theories. (Special shout-out to Elle Hart!)

- Han
p.s. Here, I'll give you a boost . . . The TRUTH is, the US Congress passed the USA PATRIOT Act in order to punish Gary McKinnon! In fact, Guantanamo Bay was setup specifically for him. Sending members of Al Quida there was just a ruse. BWAHAHAHH! Don't tell me half of you hadn't already convinced yourselves of this.

Lucy, MySpace have a very strict code of what can be posted on the Site. It's HQ is in squeaky clean Beverley Hills, LA., and overall it's an excellent resource which does'nt allow "political or legal" postings of any nature, and this included Christopher Walken when he wanted to be nominated for President of the US in this year's elections! I would'nt read any conspiracy into it. "Edge TV" did a fine job, but the people at MySpace might have done a double-take at their included title "Anarchy on the Airwaves". Who knows? Interesting post from "Han". Zealots? I think people are gamely trying to get some perspective on this, Han. There's a huge difference between making a Law and then applying it humanely. Let's have a reciprocable two-way "treaty" for a start. I can't imagine the American people themselves approve of this. The ones I know don't. They are'nt being held responsible for this farce. New free downloadable music track from my project "The Time Machine" dedicated to Gary, the Howes family, and everyone else in the world dealing with "Morlocks" on a daily basis. Every little helps. I hope. Wish I could do more, guys. Remember, we're all in this together, and that includes you too, "Han". So chill out. All you other dancing "Zealots" here go to:

Stay Sunny!

The prosecutor Scott Christie gave an interview in a computer magazine about six weeks ago saying that when (If) Gary was extradited to the U.S the most difficult thing to prove would be the alleged damage?
As the alleged damage had previously been presented by the U.S prosecutors as fact to the house of Lords, this alone speaks volumes.

We already know that the concentration camp called Guantanamo was set up to lock up anyone that the U.S had no evidence against so that they had no need to have a trial or to provide actual evidence.
We know that they regularly tortured innocent people in Guantanamo. (Innocent until proven guilty remember)

At the House of Lords appeal in Gary's case, one of the Law Lords pointed out that the proposed Max. sentence was ten years PER COUNT and Gary is charged with seven counts but Sixty years is the Maximum sentence.

In a 2002 document from the U.S prosecutors the ten years PER COUNT is also mentioned.

Seems like you don't know the facts too well.

The supposed plea bargain offered COULD NOT BE GUARANTEED and the charges could be changed and upgraded once Gary was in the U.S which is why he turned down the so called plea bargain.

By the U.S own admission there are 250 attacks on U.S military computers every year. The reason is because U.S internet security is abysmal and who else on Earth is stupid enough to have no passwords and no firewalls.

The people responsible for U.S military computers should be prosecuted for gross negligence and for leaving American citizens totally unprotected against REAL TERRORISTS.
Real Hackers and Real Terrorists don't use dial up computers and don't leave their girlfriends email address behind and don't leave political notes/cyber peace protests on military computers.

Go and find yourself some real terrorists that you can find some actual evidence against; they're probably wandering around your computers from all corners of the globe at this very minute.

Stop threatening and attempting to extradite a computer nerd that's merely embarrassed you, because that's the reality of what's happening here and you're continuing to embarrass youselves by your determination to hound Gary McKinnon into the ground.

Non violent crimes should never have been made an extraditable offence but the curent U.S government demands total control over U.K citizens although we didn't vote for your president and we all remember only too well that the American people actually voted for Al Gore.

Just a slight correction to Olives post:

By the U.S own admission there are 250 THOUSAND attacks on U.S military computers every year.

Mathew Bevan hacked into American military computers ten years before Gary and the American prosecutors described him as "The most dangerous person to world peace since Adolph Hitler".

Exagerations like the Adolph Hitler accusation above and calling Gary McKinnon a cyber terrorist just doesn't help the American cause.
Mathew Bevan now runs an internet security business.

I think the American government needs a sense of Humour, a reality check and some decent staff.
They might actually find some real terrorists then.

Amen to that, Laura. By the way, I think I may have called you Lucy in a previous post. And Han, if people here appear as "zealots" to you, it may be because many are fed up with being left with no choice but to entertain "conspiracy theories" since the transparency is in pretty short supply. The hundreds of questions around 9/11 itself, for example. Disappearing "black boxes", and Building 7 crumbling to the ground and looking exactly like a textbook building demolition. Conspiracy? Who knows? Or, Lockerbie, anyone? Rumoured, by the "conspiracy theorists" to have been blown up by the CIA to assasinate someone "they" wanted out of the way, (the plane was supposed to come down in the Atlantic, but they bodged the timer), and then pinning the job on two Libyans who were then handed over to the Scottish Courts by Mr Gaffadafi in exchange for advantages. When you are left with deliberately unanswered questions, then "conspiracies" are all many people have to aim at. Very recently the American forces in Afghanistan launched a ground attack in which they, the American Government, claimed a "mere" 3 civilians had be killed. The UN checked it out and it turned out to be 93, 60 of them children. Transparency? Hollywood could'nt make up what is happening to Gary McKinnon. Not even in an X-File. No-one would believe it. 400-500 people in the same systems as Gary McKinnon was in whilst he was actually in there? What happened to those guys? No, let's have the easy target. The one loner who was looking around for UFO's in unprotected systems who owned up to his transgression! By the way, you're not Han Solo, are you? Have'nt seen you for years. Stay Sunny, everyone!

Gary, the American people are not monsters and you will just have to put your faith in them and the US Justice system which is peopled by some excellent Attorneys, and, believe it if you will, some truly outstanding Senators. I took the time to read all 130 comments posted on The Guardian website in response to Janis' article yesterday. The bottom line is that you are, in reality, on your way to the States. The debate here, in the UK, has been well and truly and rightfully aired and it appears now to be of a media dog-chasing-its-tail variety. For your sake, it now needs to be resolved and taken out of the neutral zone and into the US Courts.

Hi Jon,

in the case of Kevin Mitnick he was left in a US prison until he eventually agreed to a plea bargain as he was left with no choice or he would have been left imprisoned until he agreed.

We're putting our faith in the UK government/Home Office refusing to extradite Gary under a flawed treaty that was not in force or even thought of when Gary was first accused and was then made retrospective several years before it was legally introduced.

To extradite an American citizen the UK have to provide actual evidence but for the US to extradite a UK citizen they only need to make an allegation.
This is morally wrong and is not reflecting equality or Justice.

There is a letter in existence from the prosecutors reserving the right to "try Gary as an enemy combatant/terrorist" although they know fullwell that Gary is the furthest thing from a terrorist you could get and the US previously admitted this.
This letter was written when they were supposedly offering Gary a plea bargain and the proposed sentence was two to five years per count and there are seven counts. so Gary was offered 35 years and even that was not and could not be guaranteed and the charges could be upped once Gary was in America.

If Gary was given even 35 years, he would be 72 years old when he got out of prison.

Gary will continue to fight the proposed extradition to the very end and although I greatly respect many American people including Jerry Pippin and Dan Ackroyd who are just a few of the Americans that support Gary; I do not like and do not trust the American judicial system one bit, especially in Virginia where the proposed trial is meant to take place.

Very few people are fortunate enough to have a trial and are forced to accept a Plea Bargain even when they are innocent.

A young girl named Chantal McKorkle was sentenced to twenty five years in a hardline US prison for doing infomercials (letting people know they could make money from doing up ,property)
Chantal has now served ten years and was refused re-patriation to serve the remainder of her sentence in the UK as the US said "her crime was too serious"

Gary has always denied the alleged damage.

Thank you Jon for caring about Gary and for supporting him. Your music has meant a great deal to him during this crucial time.

The Home office have now been re-considering Gary's case for almost four weeks, so that seems quite hopeful and if they refuse, Gary's solicitors intend to carry on fighting.

This lop sided treaty is wrong and sells out the rights of UK citizens and we should all fight against it.
This is not just about Gary, it's about our civil liberties being eroded.

Gary isn't allowed to use the internet or he would email you himself.

Can't believe you read all of the comments on the Guardian //(*_*)\\

Many Thanks & Best Wishes


Thank you for all that, Janis. No problemo, and you're truly welcome, Gary. Stay in the light, guys.


I have a book that might be helpful - 'Autism Discrimination and the Law' (pub: JKP jan. 2008) -see the link below. It doesn't make any reference to US law but there maybe something in there that is useful for Gary's solicitors.

I am happy to send a couple of copys in the post (free of course).



See my response below from someone from within the Autistic Rights movement....

This is a copy their email which caused me so much ager I neeeded to respond quickly....

Have a look. Gazza left this message in a 'note' on one of the Government computers he hacked:

US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days... It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand-down on September 11 last year... I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels.

Okay, so poor Gary: ""The systems administrator is accused of hacking into 97 United States military and NASA computers in 2001 and 2002. The computer networks he is accused of hacking include networks owned by NASA, the US Army, US Navy, Department of Defense, and the US Air Force. The US estimates claim the costs of tracking and correcting the problems he allegedly caused were around $700,000[citation needed] but he has always denied causing any damage and disputes the financial loss claimed by the US. ""

That is what is says. Of course, it is Wikipedia which means anyone could be writing!!

So no one here sees any of this behaviour as...sociopathic?

Wikipedia continues:
McKinnon has admitted in many public statements to unauthorised access of computer systems in the United States including those mentioned in the United States indictment. He claims his motivation, drawn from a statement made before the Washington Press Club on May 9, 2001 by the "The Disclosure Project", was to find evidence of UFOs, antigravity technology, and the government suppression of "Free Energy", all of which he claims to have proven through his actions.[18]

In his interview with the BBC he also claimed that "The Disclosure Project" says there is "extra-terrestrial in origin and [they've] captured spacecraft and reverse engineered it." He also claimed to have downloaded a low-resolution image of "something not man-made" and "cigar shaped" floating above the northern hemisphere. He said that unfortunately he did not manage to get a screenshot or recording of the image because he was "bedazzled" to see the image, could not remember the capture function in the software RemotelyAnywhere, and that he was "cut off" from his connection.[19]

It is also stated in a YouTube interview that McKinnon could not possibly have downloaded (?higher resolution versions of) the images due to their size, as he was on a dial-up modem which would have been too slow.

Do you think the next time the Arm supports a cause, it could, you know, discuss it first? Cite evidence and consider it?

XXXX (name with-held).... See below my response to this person email from within the Autistic Rights movement...

XXXXXX (name with-held)

So, you think Gary is a 'sociopath' do you??.... How sad!!!... So you want attack your own people? sad!!

How many Aspies/ASC's/ND's are misdiagnosed with 'Personality Disorders','Sociopaths', 'Psychopaths'... Shame on you XXXXX!!... You should hold your head in shame having a go at your 'own' people, so sad!!!, by the way....

Over 50% of USA civilians think in the same way has Gary Mckinnon and it's a lot higher in the UK 70/80%, so if Gary is a 'sociopath', then that make him pretty 'normal' in the scheme of things. So there are a lot of 'sociopaths' on the streets of the USA/UK!!!... What does this say?

Do you want all these locked up (70 years in USA jails) too XXXXX for having 'freedom-of-speech'...

....Is this a crime to 'speak-out'???... That's all what Gary did and with his Aspie 'impulsivity/curiosity' triggered by 'high-anxiety' (meltdowns), because he cared for 'humanity' and his ND curious impulsive traits have caused and is only crime in my eyes is that is Aspie traits got the better of him...

... This could have been any of 'us' with his 'obessional -interests!!!t... As Gary ND traits makes him vulnerable to be honest and tell the 'truth'... Is this a crime for 'us' Aspies/ASC's/ND's for being honest, trueful, humility, caring, empathic and having 'Curiosity'!!!

"Curiosity' may kill the cat, but ND's curiosity may get us all locked up for poking our feline noses everywhere, where one should not go, so 'our' punishment is 70 years or more in a USA Jail, or even worse the electric chair, so if this is the case XXXXX, then do you think 'NeuroDiversity' should be 'cured', because 'we' are all vulnerable then just like Gary Mckinnon.... think about it???

CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT - Where does this saying come from? I am under the assumption it came from a children's tale in which a cat falls in a pot of boiling soup because he was curious about what was in it.

CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT - Anyone who has cats knows they tend to poke their feline noses everywhere. That could be dangerous. The "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Titelman states: "An overly inquisitive person is likely to get hurt. Children are usually warned against curiosity. The proverb was first attested in the United States in 1909. In 1921, it was used by (playwright) Eugene O'Neill.(A variation is) 'Curiosity killed the cat: satisfaction brought him back.'" "Wise Words and Wives Tales" (1993, Avon Books) by Stuart Flexner and Doris Flexner has a more detailed explanation: "There is nothing new about the annoying tendency of some people to ask one question too many. Proverbial admonitions to the overly curious date back to ancient times, but 'Curiosity killed the cat' is apparently a recent invention. Of the earlier sayings, Saint Augustine recorded in 'Confessions' (397) the story of a curious soul who wondered what God did in the eons before creating heaven and earth. 'He fashioned hell for the inquisitive,' came the stern reply, and proverbial sayings of more recent times have been no less forgiving. The seventeenth-century saying, "He that pryeth into every cloud may be struck with a thunderbolt,' appeared in John Clarke's 'Paroemiologia' (1639), and in the nineteenth century, Lord Byron in 'Don Juan' (1818) roundly condemned the curious with 'I loathe that low vice curiosity.' An old saw, 'Care (worry) killed the cat.,' dated from Shakespeare's time, but the connection between a cat and curiosity, however natural it may seem now, was not made until a reference to the current proverb appeared in 1909. The adaptation, 'Curiosity can do more things than kill a cat,' was recorded in O. Henry's short story 'Schools and Schools' (1909), and the exact wording of the proverb appeared later in Eugene O'Neill's 'Diff'rent' (1922).


As you can see I have put details of the LARM protest this Sunday coming on the 'INDYMEDIA'... See below..

Hope this is helpful and gets more people to attend.



Criminal responsibility in Asperger's syndrome.Katz N, Zemishlany Z.
Geha Mental Health Center, Petah Tikva, Israel.

BACKGROUND: Asperger's syndrome (AS) has been of much interest in the last two decades. Most people with AS are law abiding and are not involved in any violence. Over the years, however, there is increasing evidence of violent behavior and criminal acts committed by some people with AS.

The characteristics of the link between AS and violation of the law requires identification and definition and the question regarding the criminal responsibility to be attributed to these offenders needs to be clarified. DATA: We present three cases that illustrate how the special characteristics of this syndrome and particularly the inability to assess social situations and appreciate others' point of view constitute the main cause for the violent behavior and the criminal offences.

For this specific behavior, the AS patients lack the criminal intent or the intent to cause harm (mens rea), which is essential for criminal responsibility.

Thus it is reasonable to consider some AS sufferers not criminally responsible for their actions and unfit to stand trial.

This approach has been accepted by the courts. CONCLUSION: It can be inferred that people with AS may not be criminally responsible despite not suffering from a psychotic illness.

See similar links and presentations to assist in Gary's case at the following links:-

Means Rea:-

Actus reus:-

==CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT - Anyone who has cats knows they tend to poke their feline noses everywhere. That could be dangerous.===

Ok! see what i got to say:
This words in the message (added above) may be used (as) for the same title or WORD but in meaning its changing the destination (to!: "i don't wanna listen/ i don't care" (to keep it short)).

Dangerous is it never when you agree with it!

Having/searching a better future for everyone [like information, that are hiding somewhere from us] its not stealing something that will hurt anyone!!!!!!!!!



(english language spoken)

This for sure:

(on this video you see whats happening around the folk)

I am just very distressed that laws about Terrorism and organised crime are being used against an individual who is clearly not a terrorist or a party to organised crime!

First heard about Gary today on project camelot interview on you tube, im so angry, this is such an injustice. Both american and uk goverments need to get some perspective here, people get less time, in fact virtually no time, for really serious crimes like pheadophiles and child murderers for instance, even when their caught red handed !! How can the uk possibly even consider sending this guy to america to be tried for this.

My heart is with gary and his family. And i wish all of you the strength to get through this terrible ordeal.

Was there made ever a fund from America to uk for buying people off?

Didnt watched the complete video on the second link i posted on my comment above, only previewed for about like 10 minutes. Yesterday i viewed the complete raportage (second link) from A. Jones (3 hours). The video on the second link is very important too. Please see it too for sure.

(To understand easy, first start these)

(then this one)

(video 2, website A. Jones

"Crazy"! things are happening/happened in our world. It is a shame that God created this planet. BELIEVE ME IT WILL SCARE YOU!
The first video shows the truth and the second will let you know the reason why.




I dont understand what all this pouring out of emotion for Gary. So he has AS. He is peerfectly aware of what he was doing and when you break the law you have to answer for it. His crime was against the USA so why should they not press home their charges. Who knows how much damage he did and how many USA citizens he endangered by hi activities which were not fluke but a cinsistent and constant exercise of a period of six years? * Do the crime do the time Gary *

A British man named Mathew Bevan hacked into U.S military computers including the Pentagon, ten years prior to Gary.
Mathew Bevan was hysterically described by the American authorities as "the most dangerous threat to world peace since Adolph Hitler".
The American government now want to prosecute Gary McKinnon as a cyber terrorist.

This sort of hysterical attitude and over reaction just doesn't help the American cause.

Mathew Bevan was tried in a British court of law and was acquitted and now runs his own internet security company.
Gary McKinnon should also be tried in a British court as the premise is identical.

The rights of U.K citizens are being eroded to appease the vindictive U.S government and this is not on.

The people who should be prosecuted to the Max, are the employees of the U.S military that had NO PASSWORDS and NO FIREWALLS on Military computers prior to and after after 9/11.

To have no internet security for weeks would have been unforgivable but to have no internet security such as basic Passwords and Firewalls for NOT WEEKS but for YEARS ON END is a Crime. The American people were left totally unprotected prior to and after 9/11. Perhaps there are traitors in Midst of the U.S military.

When Gary McKinnon left messages on their computers saying their security was crap, no one rectified it.

When he told them that people from all over the world (including China) were wandering through their systems this didn't seem to register as their security is still abysmal.

Rather than paying to upgrade security with some decent staff, they want to Extradite and throw the book at a computer nerd who admitted walking into their systems on a dial up machine in his girlfriends bedroom almost seven years ago. (Gary was not hacking for six years as was suggested) but was arrested just over six years ago.

This case is all about the Embarrasement of the U.S government and nothing more.

If we wanted to Extradite a U.S citizen for hacking we wouldn't have a hope in hell and we would have to provide actual "evidence" of the alleged damage.

The continual hysteria and overeaction of the American government to everthing that happens in the world and their insatiable need to dominate every other citizen in every other country has caused the world to seriously doubt the sanity of those in power in America.

They continues to embarrass themselves further by their determination to hound a computer nerd into the ground. They are the Bullies of the World and unfortunately the U.K government sells out their own citizens to appease the madmen.

The American Judicial system is not a bit like ours: See Links Below:

In 2006 District Judge Nicholas Evans ruled that he would deny the US extradition request unless the US could guarantee that they would not prosecute McKinnon as a terrorist.
The defendant’s attorney argued that if his client were treated as a terrorist, the U.S. would have the authority to detain him indefinitely. (See Link Below)

So do the U.K courts just change their minds and sell ot their citizens to suck up to the U.S government?

Supporters urge halt to hacker's extradition to US

* The Guardian, Friday September 26 2008
* Duncan Campbell

Autism experts, politicians, lawyers and civil rights campaigners are urging Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, to intervene in the case of the British hacker Gary McKinnon so that he can be tried in Britain rather than being extradited to the US. McKinnon, recently diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome (AS), has exhausted all legal challenges but Smith can intervene on (...)
(...) home secretary, to intervene in the case of the British hacker Gary McKinnon so that he can be tried in Britain rather than (...)

Other article:-

Colin Revell

Hi All,

As I mentioned in a previous entry I spoke about Gary in a recent interview on BBC Radio Newcastle on 23rd September. You can listen to the interview from this link.

Richard D. Hall

Hello My name is claire from Edge Media TV, The Gary Mckinnon report will appear on our channel next week sometime please check our website for date and time.

Thank You

If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
the courts in the USA are independent and He will be treated justly.He will be allowed representation.AndI have no doubt if he needs it legal costs.
You could make a case for him being better treated in the USA than here in the UK.
I repeat if you can't do the Time don't do the crime.

Too right anonymous, so when are you extraditing your terrorists and war criminals to be tried for the crimes of the century. doidn't sign up to be tried in the Hague did you? and you made sure your soldiers were made immune from being tried for War Crimes....If you can't do the time then you abuse the law by making yourself immune from being tried for War Crimes etc and you don't Extradite your IRA terrorists that bombed the hell out of the U.K

Gary is happy to be tried in his own country in the U.K not in America currently run by a rogue government that is way out of control and determined to try and treat the rest of the world as their subjects or slaves to walk over as they feel fit.

You've lost all moral authority in the world, maybe Obama will change that, I hope so.

Gary McKinnon is facing extradition to the USA under the controversial Extradition Act 2003, without any prima facie evidence or charges brought against him in a UK court. Try him here in the UK, under UK law.

Write in support of Gary

If you feel strongly enough that Gary McKinnon should not be extradited to the USA, but should be tried here in Britain, then there are various people you can write to.

Firstly you can write to us here at We will pass your messages of support on to Gary, and publicise this support to the media and to the politicians.

You can post anonymously here on this blog, but please be polite. Alternatively you can send us emails, but if you want a reply and the latest news, then you need to use a valid email address.

You can write to your Member of Parliament via WriteToThem

If your Member of Parliament has not already done so, then please ask them to sign

Early Day Motion 2388 sponsored by David Burrowes MP

(Previously, EDM 241 sponnsored by the then Conservative MP and now Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, also gathered a large number of MP's signatures opposed to the unfair Extradition Act 2003 and the Extradition Treaty with the USA).

You can also write to David Blunkett Charles Clarke John Reid Jacqui Smith Alan Johnson Theresa May who is now the 6th Home Secretary who has had the responsibility for Gary McKinnon's extradition case:

You can send an email public.enquiries@ or a letter to:

Home Secretary
Rt Hon. Theresa May MP
c/o Direct Communications Unit
Home Office
2 Marsham Street
London SW1P 4DF

Home Office Contact Us page

Write to US President Barack Obama - the official website of the President of the Umited States of America, Barack Obama.

"President Obama is committed to creating the most open and accessible administration in American history. To send questions, comments, concerns, or well-wishes to the President or his staff, please use the form below:"

Contact the White House web message form.

Please use this form to remind them just how counterproductive, and damaging to US national interests, especially to their supposedly changed international reputation, putting Gary McKinnon on trial in the USA would be.

Extradition Watch


Extradition Watch campaign to reform the Extradition Act 2003 by Liberty Human Rights .

You can download a PDF Paper Aeroplane and then photograph it, in support of Gary McKinnon

Donation via PayPal

Click on the PayPal Donations button above, to make a secure credit card or direct debit or PayPal account financial contribution to help support this blog website.

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Comments Policy

This blog operates a reasonably tolerant blog comments policy.

You are free to condemn Gary McKinnon's past stupidity, and to highlight the need for appropriate, proportionate criminal justice, all of which Gary accepts.

Please try to be polite (although you will not be banned simply for the odd expletive).

Do try to keep on topic

If you feel the need to publicise lots of URLs (especially without explanation), or lengthy articles, not directly related to Gary McKinnon's extradition case, then link to your own blog article, otherwise your comment will be filtered out as spam.

You would be very wise to read the small print of the Internet Acceptable Use Policy applied by your Internet Service Provider, company or educational institution etc. and refrain from threats or libel (including unsubstantiated allegations without any real evidence) or expressions of hatred etc. against Gary, his family or supporters, or even against groups people or organisations in the United States of America or the United Kingdom etc.

Recent Comments

  • Olive: Too right anonymous, so when are you extraditing your read more
  • Anonymous: If you can't do the time don't do the crime. read more
  • Claire: Hello My name is claire from Edge Media TV, The read more
  • Richard D. Hall: Hi All, As I mentioned in a previous entry I read more
  • Colin: Supporters urge halt to hacker's extradition to US * read more
  • jay: In 2006 District Judge Nicholas Evans ruled that he would read more
  • Jo: A British man named Mathew Bevan hacked into U.S military read more
  • Victoria: I dont understand what all this pouring out of emotion read more
  • non anonymous: Didnt watched the complete video on the second link i read more
  • non anonymous: Was there made ever a fund from America to uk read more
  • Laraine: First heard about Gary today on project camelot interview on read more
  • Bernice: I am just very distressed that laws about Terrorism and read more
  • non anonymous: ==CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT - Anyone who has cats knows read more
  • Colin: Criminal responsibility in Asperger's syndrome.Katz N, Zemishlany Z. Geha Mental read more

Photos of Gary


Gary_McKinnon_Bow_Street_Magistrates_24_Nov_2005_600.jpg Gary McKinnon outside Bow Street Magistrates' Court, London, 24th November 2005

Bow_Street_Magistrates_Gary_McKinnon_24_Nov_2005_600.jpg Gary McKinnon outside Bow Street Magistrates' Court, London, 24th November 2005

Gary_McKinnon_Janis_Sharp_15Jan2009_150min.jpg Gary McKinnon and his mother Janis Sharp at the Doughty Street Chambers press conference 15 January 2009

Gary McKinnon and his mother Janis Sharp at the Doughty Street Chambers press conference 15 January 2009 (click the image for a larger version in a new window)

gary-janis-mayday_150.jpg Gary McKinnon and his mother Janis Sharp at the May Day Bank Holioday 2010 balloon release event event near the Houses of Parliament

Gary McKinnon and his mother Janis Sharp at the May Day Bank Holiday 2010 balloon release event event near the Houses of Parliament (click the image for a larger version in a new window)

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Gary McKinnon is facing extradition to the USA under the controversial Extradition Act 2003, <strong>without any prima facie evidence</strong> or charges brought against him in a UK court. Try him here in the UK, under UK law.

Gary McKinnon is facing extradition to the USA under the controversial Extradition Act 2003, without any prima facie evidence or charges brought against him in a UK court. Try him here in the UK, under UK law.

Thanks to for hosting one of these links locally on their servers. The over half a million hits this site took in 24 hours when they were linking directly, is welcome publicity, but was costing us a lot of bandwidth !

About this blog

This blog website is intended to support British citizen Gary McKinnon, who is facing "fast track" extradition to the USA (after over five six seven eight nine ten years since his initial arrest !). Gary was indicted by a US court in November 2002, accused of "hacking" into over 90 US Military computer systems from here in the UK. The unjust treatment of British citizens (and others) when facing the might of the US Military "justice" system, which practices detention without trial in Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere, and stands accused of making use of torture by allied regimes ("extraordinary rendition") is an ongoing scandal. It cannot be excused even by a "war on terror". It seems only just that Gary should face any charges in a British court, and to serve any sentence, if he is found guilty, in a British prison. N.B. With the good news that Gary will not now be extradited to the USA, this blog will continue to raise awareness of the issues raised by Gary's case and others who have suffered unjustly through the UK's one sided extradition arrangements with the USA and to a lesser extent, Europe.

Email Contact

Please feel free to email us your views about this blog, or news about the issues it tries to comment on:

Download our PGP Public Encryption Key, if you want to make use of it to send us anything confidential.

N.B. Gary McKinnon was "not allowed to use any computer connected to the internet", as part of his bail conditions.

Is anyone more likely to have any email accounts he dared to use, monitored by the UK and US authorities ?

If you are a tv or radio or print journalist, or a freelance writer or documentary film maker, wanting to interview Gary, please include some full contact details and a contact phone number, and we will pass on your request to Gary's family.

Gary McKinnon offers Search Engine Optimisation


Gary McKinnon is now offering low cost Search Engine Optimisation services


Follow Gary's mother on Twitter


Gary McKinnon's mother, Janis Sharp is indefatigable in support of her son, and is now using Twitter to help to keep friends and supporters informed. You can follow her "tweets" at: #TweetsStorm's in support of Gary Mckinnon.

Media Links and Videos

Links to media interviews and video clips about Gary McKinnon's extradition case, featuring Gary, his mother Janis Sharpe and other supporters, can be found at:

Petitions in support of Gary McKinnon and others

Several people have expressed interest in "signing a petition" in support of Gary's plight.

N.B. the anti-road pricing / snooping petition on the Number 10 Downing Street website achieved 1,791,942 signatures, but this was rubbished and ignored by the Labour Government under Tony Blair, so do not expect too much of what will inevitably be much smaller petitions in support of Gary McKinnon.

This PledgeBank Pledge (not quite the same as a traditional petition), resulted in lots of people actua;lly taking the time and trouble to write to the then Home Secretary John Reid - so many that the Home Office stopped sending back indfividual replies.

This Pledge closed on 8th June 2006, and attracted 745 pledge signatures.

People have petitoned the Prime Minister (Tony Blair): GaryMcKinnon/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Stop the extradition to the US of accused hacker Gary McKinnon.

This petition closed on 27 August 2007 with 876 Signatures.

There is a petition on a web petitons site, which is open for signature:

Stop the extradition of Gary McKinnon to the United States

We the undersigned urge Gordon Brown and the UK Government to consider the evidence and if appropriate prosecute Gary McKinnon, an Asperger Syndrome sufferer, in UK courts rather than allow him to be extradited to the US for offences relating to accessing US Government computers in 2001.

There is another current No 10 Downing Street website Petition to the Prime Minister (Gordon Brown):

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Scrap the US/UK extradition treaty

Another Petiton (August 2009): Sign up 4 Gary McKinnon:

We, the undersigned, call on the Prime Minster Of the UK and Alan Johnson and the UK Government, for Gary to be tried in the UK- FREE GARY.

Petition to Stop the Gary McKinnon extradition to the United States (November 24th 2009)

We the undersigned urge Gordon Brown and the UK Government to consider the evidence and if appropriate prosecute Gary McKinnon, an Asperger Syndrome sufferer, in UK courts rather than allow him to be extradited to the US for offences relating to accessing US Government computers in 2001.

Blog Links

Spy Blog - Privacy and Civil Liberties commentary and campaigns

Rat's Blog - The Reverend Rat comments on London street life and technology

Dr. K's blog - Hacker, Author, Musician, Philosopher

Legal Links

Kaim Todner - solicitors

November 2002 Grand Jury Indictment (.pdf)

November 2002 Grand Jury Indictment with all the "censored" IP addresses revealed by "cut and paste".

Virginia Indictment - November 2002 Department of Justice press release

New Jersey Indictment - November 2002 Department of Justice press release

New Jersey indictment - full text

Military Commission Order No. 1 (.pdf) - signed by President George W. Bush, March 21st 2002.

Extradition Act 2003

Computer Misuse Act 1990

Read the Foreign & Commonwealth Office official online  and printed copies of the unbalanced USA - UK Extradition Treaty - it even uses American English words and spellings e.g "offenses" and "authorize" ! Extradition Treaty between the UK and the United States of America with Exchange of Notes Presented to Parliament: June 2007 (.pdf)

Statewatch's analysis of the civil rights defects in the UK-US Extradition treaty

Oral Evidence on UK-US Extradition Treaty given to the House of Commons Select Committee on Home Affairs on 22nd November 2005 given by Senior District Judge Tim Workman; Ms Sally Ireland, Senior Legal Officer, JUSTICE; Andy Burnham MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office

International Extradition Blog - by McNabb Associates a law firm that specialises in international extradition cases.

The Appeal Court Judgement issued on 3rd April 2007 is now online via the BAILII database

The House of Lords Judgment - 30th July 2008:

McKinnon (Appellant) v Government of the United States of America (Respondents) and another

Gary McKinnon's statement to the Director of Public Prosecutions, January 2009, published by Computer Weekly: US took 39 months to demand McKinnon's extradition.

McKinnon v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2009] EWHC 170 (Admin) (23 January 2009) - Oral Hearing which allowed a Judicial review on the Asperger's Syndrome aspects of the case, to be held some time after 16th March 2009

Computer Weekly have published Crown Prosecution Service Review Note 3, which explains some of the reasons why the CPS found insufficient evidence to prosecute Gary in the UK, including some inadmissable hearsay, and doubts that some of the alleged computer foresnic evidence was up to the ACPO guidlines for ensuring an untampered chain of evidence, and doubts about the unproven amount of alleged financial damage being claimed.

The British and Irish Legal Information Institute have published the text of the two combined Judicial Review Judgments made against Gary McKinnon which were handed down on Friday 31st July 2009:

Lord Justice Stanley Burnton and Mr. Justice Wilkie's refusal to allow Gary McKinnon's case to be certified to go up to the Supreme Court on appeal,handed down on Friday 9th October 2009.

McKinnon, R (on the application of) v Secretary of State for Home Affairs [2009] EWHC 2449 (Admin) (09 October 2009) URL: Cite as: [2009] EWHC 2449 (Admin)

Other Links

London 2600 - open monthly meeting which discusses IT Security and Technology etc., from both sides of the fence.

Egypt 2600 - just like London 2600, but in Egypt, also interested in the Gary McKinnon's case.

School of the Americas Watch - information on the notorious "School of the Americas" renamed to the "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation" in Fort Benning, Georgia.

The Disclosure Project serious research about possible UFOs

Wikipedia entry for Gary McKinnon - has links to several media interviews etc.

Scottish Human Rights website inspired by thinking about Gary McKinnon's case, and realising that similar things could so easily happen to you. The law in Scotland is somewhat different from the rest of the United Kingdom.

Free Babar Ahmad - another British (Muslim) IT worker, also facing extradition to the USA, also at risk of a Military Tribunal. - campaign support for the Enron / NatWest 3 bankers - David Bermingham, Giles Darby and Gary Mulgrew facing extradition extradited to the USA for alleged crimes committed in the UK.

Stop the Extradition of Sean Garland - an Irish Republican politician arrested in Belfast, also facing extradition to the USA for alleged crimes committed in the UK or in Russia. - petiton Labour MPs to support the amendments to the Extradition Act 2003 passed by the House of Lords to the Police and Justice Bill, when it comes before the House of Commons at Report Stage on the 9th and 10th of October 2006. About 50 Labour MPs are required, as all of the Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and most of the other minor Opposition parties are committed to support these amendments.

Howes Family Extradition Fight - amother extraordinary extradition case to the USA.

Financial appeal to sue the UK Government - Ross Hemsworth, an online radio presenter of paranormal and UFO investigations, is trying to taise £5000 to initiate legal proceedings, with the help of top human rights law firm Bindmans LLP, against the Home Secretary, to "challenge the government's refusal to review the unjust and one-sided extradition treaty with the USA." - support website for Gary McKinnon by Ed Johnson.

Gary the musician

Gary McKinnon is, amongst other things, a musician and songwriter.

You can download a couple of his songs from the low budget film Lunar Girl which was produced in 2001.

The video from this film of Only Fool, still available on YouTube, was very popular on MySpace, until it got censored.

How not to research a thesis on Gary McKinnon

This blog tries to be helpful to journalists, documenatry film makers, book researchers etc. who are researching the background of the Gary McKinnon extradition story.

For those academic thesis supervisors using search engines or academic plagiarism detection tools, here is an example of how not to "research" a thesis or dissertation about the Gary McKinnon extradition case.

See the comments by "Eye4Lies" in the comments on starting at House of Lords Judgment against Gary McKinnon now online and again at European Court of Human Rights to hear Gary McKinnon's application against extradition to the USA on 28th August 2008