ITN News report that Hacker wins extradition delay
But his solicitors announced he had won a stay until August 28 by the European Court of Human Rights.
[...]
A brief statement said he has been granted "interim relief" until that date "for his application to be heard before the full chamber Presidents of the European Court Human Rights will hear his application, before the full Chamber, on 28th August 2008.
A Chamber of the ECHR consists of 7 Judges (more details about who these are likely to be later)
The European Court of Human Rights website: http://www.echr.coe.int
Address details:
European Court of Human Rights
Council of Europe
67075 Strasbourg-Cedex
France
Tel: +33 (0)3 88 41 20 18
Fax: +33 (0)3 88 41 27 30
MJ
wishing you all the good luck you deserve Gary for the 28th. Let's hope Europe can see more sense than either the US or UK have shown to date.
3L173~74
hopefully european court will see some commen sense, the retarted U.S has been doing lots of crimanal things and because their the U.S its ok. its not fair to be trialed in diffrent country that is biast against your case if he gets trialed in U.S he has no hope their the Judge Jury and Prosecution what leg does he to stand on. everything should be about fair-ness. its only a computer and fare as i see it he pointed out their error now. its like walking down a random ally way and finding a door thats open and takes u to Fort Knox's vault and you knock on vault door saying guys you left the door open and they shoot you dead :S
and technokly its on Break and Enter and the malicous damage that they acusing him of is repair of flaw in system which you know people that get paid to point them out, so shouldnt they give him money not a jail sentance.
Brazilian
In Brasil Federal Citizen Constitution legislation says:
Constituição Federal (CF/88), no inciso LI do art. 5º:
"Nenhum brasileiro será extraditado, salvo o naturalizado, em caso de crime comum, praticado antes da naturalização, ou de comprovado envolvimento em tráfico ilícito de entorpecentes e drogas afins, na forma da lei".
Translation:
Natural Brazilians can not be extradited, except naturalised one that committed the crime before naturalization, evolved into drug traffic.
This means that Brazilians are Brazil problem. We understand that we cannot guarantee, fair judgement to our citizens in another country. If I'm not mistake, in this case, it should have analogue law in Brazil for the crime, and this analogy law should applied to who committed the crime.
-Br
thealexweb
The odds may be stacked up against him but he still does have a small chance.
Eye4Lies
[quote=]“US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”[/quote]
Gary claims he may have committed Unintentional Damage and only did this for Curiosity??? Don't you people think Gary has lied to you enough?
fg
Do you honestly believe that this as yet unproven allegation really represents over $900,000 of financial damage, or that it would be proportionate to spend the rest of your life in prison for uttering something similar ?
Lorn
A lot of people rightly or wrongly believe that 9/11 may have been an inside job, google Loose Change 2 or watch the cinema version Final Cut....hence the comment: It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”[/quote
A lot of people throughout the world are very suspicious as to what really happened and who really caused 9/11 but you don't imprison someone for sixty years for giving an opinion coupled with computer intrusion.
Jose
Incidentally, the above comments listed attributed to Gary, were three seperate comments that have been strung together by the US.
Gary may well have believed in the Loose Change 2 opinion that 9/11 was an inside job and that's not a crime. Free Speech etc
Eye4Lies
@fg...I have yet to see any hacker get more than 3 years in jail. Then again I have never heard or read about a hacker that intentionally damaged the computers that we was accessing.
@Lorn and @Jose...You are wrong about the quotes. The Lords only included a portion of the note he left behind on a computer he just disabled. I don't think anyone really cares about the political opinions in the note...but I bet they took his vow to continue his disruption seriously.
You might buy the unintentional...inadvertent...accidental excuse one time, but he did it twice to more that five servers/computers.
I never thought the people in the UK would be considered gullible, but you people posting on this web page could really change my opinion.
fg
@ Eye4Lies -
How about the much more serious case involving actual sabotage of Top Secret computers which are supposed to prevent collisions between US Navy submarines and navigational hazards or other ships ?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/18/sub_traffic_malware_aliens_likelier/
Would you support criminal prosecutions of the senior US Military officers, Department of Defense officials, private sector defense contractors and politicians who failed so abysmally, either through incompetence, corruption or perhaps treason, in their management of the military computer networks which Gary, and others appear to have had free access to, not for a few days or weeks, but for several years on end ?
J
Jose and Lorn are not wrong and you are naieve to believe otherwise.
I know for a fact that these were three separate messages strung together by the US and the Lords have chosen to accept the courts and the Lords version that was provided to both of them by the USA without Gary being allowed to defend this in any UK court.
Gary can only fight the extradition but is not allowed to prove his innocence re-any of the allegations.
Gary has always denied causing damage but you are pronouncing him guilty before any trial has taken place, so it's pretty obvious that Gary could never get a fair trial in the US.
The continuing to disrupt comment is akin to people on a peace march expressing their views.
Gary along with many others, may have believed that 9/11 was an inside job and to express his revulsion to that by leaving notes expressing his opinion is the kind of thing that caring human beings and Peace Marchers do.
Many Peace Protests will now take place in cyberspace as it brings the message of Peace to the world.
The depth of this witch hunt of one person for six or seven years is the kind of thing that has turned so many people against the current US government.
Hopefully Obama will bring the change that's needed.
Eye4Lies
@fg...Your example case is close in comparison, but that is a case of an insider who had authorized access and decided to commit sabotage. Gary committed "unauthorized" access and sabotage. As to your other point...If failing to properly secure a computer becomes a criminal act then I would support action against the system administrators, software developer and users...but that will never happen and your point is feeble at best. It is true Gary accessed some computers that were not properly secured, but he also stole passwords and used them to access computers that were properly secured. It was these secured computers and servers that he chose to disable.
@J...What you know for a "Fact" is incorrect. I wish I could tell you how I know, but it does not really matter, you would disbelieve me solely on the fact that I am American. It also does not matter if I have convicted Gary in my mind. A jury of his peers will be selected who have not formed an opinion either way. Most likely they have never even heard of this case. He will get a fair trial and despite what you think of Americans and our justice system it is every bit as fair as yours. Just because we are not as lenient to criminals as you are does not make us unfair.
I would ask you to get the truth from Gary, but we all know that won't be possible since integrity has never been one of his character traits. The irrefutable evidence was presented to the UK authorities and it will be presented in a US court for lawyers from both side to discuss and a jury to decide. No one needs to create any evidence in a case that has so much physical and testimonial evidence.
This has not been a six or seven year witch hunt by the Americans. This has been a six or seven year vain attempt by Gary to avoid responsibility. Every UK court that has heard this case has agreed that he must answer for what he has done in America. If anything you should applaud American tenacity for seeking justice.
fg
@ Eye4Lies - you made several straw man arguments:
So which is worse, the betrayal of trust, for revenge and financial benefit, by the US citizen Richard F. Sylvestre, whose actions against Top Secret systems, attempted to put lives at risk, or Gary's unauthorised access to low security level systems ?
Gary denies causing deliberate damage, so there is no question of premeditated "sabotage", as in the Sylvestre case. Any such allegations are going to be hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt, given the number of other unauthorised people from China, Russia and USA non-military systems etc. who seem to have been exploiting the same utter lack of security which Gary seems too have done at the time.
Are you a politician ? 8-)
That sort of sophistry and straw man argument, avoiding the actual point made, is what we are used to in the UK from our politicians and their spin doctors.
It is not the "system administrators, software developer and users" who are to blame, it is the senior Military officers, senior Defense Department officials and the senior management of defense contractors, and their political masters, who are responsible. Any systems administrator can make a configuration mistake, but it is the utter systemic failure of the people who designed and managed the security auditing systems and procedures, or who deliberately ignored the warnings produced by those procedures, not for a few days or weeks, but for several years on end, who should be named and shamed, and given the scale of their failures, they should be prosecuted.
Whether you are an American or not neither adds to, nor detracts from your believability.
Are you claiming direct first hand knowledge of the investigation ?
Or have you you picked up hearsay from someone else who is involved and who is breaching their duty of confidentiality ?
"A jury of his peers", can only be in the United Kingdom.
How is it possible to select an unbiased jury, from the jury pool catchment area of the Federal Court in the Eastern District of Virginia, in Alexandria ?
This sits just across the Delaware river from the Pentagon, surrounded by the National Security Agency at Fort Meade, and the US Army communications centre at Fort Belvoir, all of which Gary is accused of unauthorised access to some of their computer systems
How is it possible for any potential jury members not to either be directly employed by the US Government, Military Forces, Intelligence Agencies or private sector companies which depend mostly on business from these, or not to have family members or friends who are so employed ?
That cannot be a fair "jury of his peers".
You know nothing about Gary personally, so how can you claim to know his past or current integrity ?
No "evidence" has been presented to a UK court.
Under the old Extradition proceedings, some prima facie evidence would have had to have been presented, but under the scandalous Extradition Act 2003, only unproven allegations are required.
It will be interesting to see if any "irrefutable" evidence is ever presented, e.g. independently digitally signed and digitally time stamped log files.
A few print outs of IP addresses are trivial to fake or edit to give a false picture of activity.
The length of time of this case has nothing to do with Gary McKinnon, he has not fled from justice. At every stage, there have been months of delays by the US prosecutors, and by the UK Home Office, and obviously the higher courts have their own lengthy queues.
Gary is not avoiding responsibility for his actions, only seeking to have a fair trial in the UK, and is willing to face prison in the UK if necessary.
No UK court has heard this case - Gary has never been charged, let alone convicted of a crime in the UK.
The UK courts have all had to work within the constraints of the Extradition Act 2003, which has been applied retrospectively to Gary's case (he was arrested in 2002, before that Act was even drawn up).
There has been no examination or cross examination of any of the facts or evidence of the case, only checks on whether the extraction documentation had been filled out correctly, and arguments about general points of law,
Ben
What a travesty of justice. I am a Canadian living in France and the fact that the UK can act so submissively to the requests of a regime that is approaching that of a totalitarian state is frightening to say the least. Gary McKinnon compared to Dick Cheney and his cabal is like comparing Tinker-bell to Attila the Hun. I hope the court in Strasbourg see through this charade and halt this repugnant act of vengeance before it is too late.
Eye4Lies
@fg...ok, let's dance.
The fairness of the law does not differentiate between the two. One exceeds authorized access and the other gains unauthorized access. The damage (whether it is disabling a network or putting lives at risk) is only considered during sentencing. Putting lives at risk is always worse than causing expenditure of money and man hours to repair damage.
There you go again, placing your faith in a criminal. Oh forgive me, since GARY denies doing it, lets all just toss off and go home!!
The source of my information is "open" source enhanced with interviews of people with first hand information. I know it angers you to loose faith in Gary's word...but faith is often tested with the truth.
Do you truly wish to sound so elitist as imply that only UK citizens have the intelligence to fairly judge a criminal? Your statement is insulting and pompous.
I know you are angry about the new legislation. What you are ignoring is that a petition for extradition, was first filed and presented along with the prima facie evidence back in 2002 in a UK court. The court approved the extradition back then and Gary's appeal process has been ongoing ever since. The evidence was also presented to your Law Enforcement Agencies which gave them the probable cause to obtain a search warrant from your courts. The honor of presenting the evidence to a jury has been graciously granted to the US by your courts based on the evidence that they have been presented, the least of which is Gary's own admittance given under rights advisement or "caution" as you call it.
Once again I am disappointed in the gullibility of many who post here. Especially you fg. Do you think Gary is really worth fabricating or altering evidence? For God's Sakes fg!! It was the evidence that lead the NHTCU to Gary's residence. Once presented with the evidence even Gary himself has made limited (not total) admissions to his crime! Now you have the audacity to claim that the evidence that will be presented by the US under oath will be both fabricated and altered. Once again you are being insulting.
You are right, I don't know Gary personally, but I have researched all his interviews and that funny but inaccurate BBC afternoon play, as well as researched all available information on the net. My interest in this case is purely research for a thesis. But I am really troubled by the ignorance that is posted on this website and the general unfair labeling of the US justice system on this website. I participate in these comments for both reasons. You may consider my arguments as "Strawmen." But when your only source of information is an admitted felon...I will take my research any day.
johndoe
I live here in the USA, and I just what to say I'm in full support of Gary McKinnon.He should have his trial in
britain,I think if his trial was here in the US it would be a biased and unfair trial.
fg
@ Eyes4Lies
No thanks.
Gary is not a criminal, he is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty.
The US prosecutors are not going to be pleased by such breaches of confidentiality, which risk prejudicing any future trial.
You know nothing about my faith.
Back to your sophistry again, ignoring the point about the inevitable inherent unfairness of a jury selected from Alexandria Virginia in this particular case.
Despite your claims to be have researched this case, you do not appear to have read the public Judgments by either the High Court or the House of Lords, which clearly set out the chronology of the extradition hearings and appeals.
There was no UK extradition hearing in this case until June 2005.
There has been no challengable prima facie evidence presented, because the US authorities no longer have to do so under the the new Extradition Act 2003, only unproven allegations are now required.
The same is not true of UK authorities, who still do have to present challengable prima facie evidence to a US extradition hearing.
If you had bothered to read the Judgments, or even the online press reports, you would also know that there was no "search warrant from your courts". You do not seem to understand the basics of "Mutual Legal Assistance" requests in the United Kingdom.
Given the huge lack of any security on those military computer systems, it will be necessary for the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt, that only Gary was responsible for any particular alleged intrusion or alleged damage, and not any of the other people who were exploiting the same scandalous vulnerability at the time.
One way to do this would be to present "independently digitally signed and digitally time stamped log files." as evidence. Anything less than that raises the possibility of "reasonable doubt".
You do not know him or me personally, but yet you conduct ad hominem attacks on us.
So you are planning to enhance your professional career on the basis of this case ?
Gary McKinnon is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Your "research" is factually inaccurate, on even the basic public facts of the legal proceedings, and you seem to lack any sort of dispassionate academic neutral point of view.
No doubt your thesis supervisors will use a search engine, and find these comments of yours relevant in their assessment of your "research".
J2907
All very interesting. I do think it's curious that the US believes it has legal dominion over Cyberspace - one only need look to the detail of the export regulations on 128+bit encryption for the evidence...
And I have to say: Eye4Lies - despite claiming no emotional attachment and only being here for a thesis, you do seem to be getting a bit personal: "we all know that won't be possible since integrity has never been one of his character traits" - known him since he was 6 years old have you? And like many Americans, you demonstrate a tragically limited knowledge of your own legal system; Gary is not yet a criminal - the US constitution cites habeas corpus as being a corner tenet on which your law is based. Not that your government has stepped up to that plate .
I think you've got a point though, and you'll probably appreciate this link as additional stuf for your thesis - it's not too tangential.
http://research.ibm.com/antivirus/scipapers/gordon/genericviruswriters.html
fg
@ J2907 - I assume that your tangential reference to Sarah Gordon's 1994 article, is actually to the upper case sensitive:
http://www.research.ibm.com/antivirus/SciPapers/Gordon/GenericVirusWriter.html
N.B. Gary is not a "virus writer".
Nelson
Eye4Lies:
As for Americans who support the perverse tyrannical regime there such as you, it's mind over matter.
We don't mind and you don't matter.
Gary Mckinnon is guilty of no more than harmless mischief.
Grow up and get a backbone sport.
joel
I am neither British nor American. Our western/elsewhere media is totally biased towards presenting information that best suits the local demographic in function of upholding common belief, which is something that has always been dictated. The internet is indeed a tool that can be used to step out of the usual thought confinement, or not. To the keen observer, it should be obvious that due to political development in the US, more precisely since beginning of the 21st century, that Gary would indeed not get a fair trial. Rights and liberties have been cut altogether and everyone who follows the news over there knows that. To Gary’s case this means he could be tortured in order to force him to say what exactly he got to see from the “super secret” UFO files and who else got that information from him. Extradition would also ensure that no other Governments get hold of him or his knowledge. I really do hope that the European court for human rights does acknowledge this FACT, so that he does not need to go abroad.
Unfortunately, the whole of Europe does get its share from the rulers of the world. Britain the most, since it is deeply tied to them beginning with culture, up to secret military operations. It is a scandal to wake up and find out to be a slave to such a hierarchy, which became so obvious when looking at the last few years and seeing that nothing is being/can be(?) done to dismantle this powerful system.
People of the world, wake up.
Harry b d
I am astounded that Gary McKinnon could be jailed in the USA or anywhere else for hacking into US military computer systems. On the contrary he should be praised and rewarded for exposing security weaknesses in these systems which could have been exploited by any rogue state to the detriment of the free world.
The free world is in debt to Gary McKinnon. Any punishment whatsoever would be a travesty of justice.
Virtualtom
I have follow everything I could find on this Gary McKinnon case in the media. I am English and have been living in Ontario for the last 7 years. Before that I spent a couple of years in the USA and I'm about 40 now.
I am thoroughly appalled by the political process in the UK and the USA regarding this matter. Firstly the length of time it has taken to get this far is one of the most abusive things that could have happened to McKinnon. He has already been tried and hung by this farce. Guilt is not the question, but the handling of the plaintiff seems to be what is being debated.
I think that under the current political phase of the Western World there is an interesting dance of emotions. We would love to know the truth and want to get rid of injustice, but for 99% of us we only have the internet and corp. media for information. I think that the McKinnon case has become more about US Political Ego than seeking justice.
Trespassing in cyberspace is hardly the equal of a horrific war crime, and yet how come none of the horrific war crimes committed by the Japanese military on POWs were ever pursued with as much vigor as this McKinnon case? We demonized Hitler's Nazi regime and Stalin's horrors, but kind of let Japanese military doctors/leaders off the hook because they were bombed with a few really big bombs. They did human disections on LIVING FULLY CONSCIOUS POWs!!!! Why don't they retroactively go after these people under the Geneva Convention????
Just like they are retroactively going after McKinnon with recently created Cyber Law in the US?
I love my US friends and I think there are pockets of astonishing humanity in that country, which could shame many cold communities in the UK (and there are a few), but the US governance is so corrupted by corporate greed that Fairness will NEVER occur in situations which threaten the largest power points of the American Empire. Oil, Military, and Banking interests will be the end of the once inspiring United States.
The UK government is turning into a bunch of rent boys for the US foreign office. The Great Britain of my Grandfather's generation is quickly disappearing. It is very sad.
I truly hope that Gary McKinnon has some good years ahead of him. I don't think he's a bad lad AT ALL. I hope a million hackers crash the entire US Military computer network if McKinnon is put in jail. George Bush should be rape with a wire brush and then given a salt water enema!!
Sorry, I got a bit carried away there...
Homelanddude
Claire whose husband used to work with Gary called and suggested I post my blog here whioh is full of facts about Gary -
www.usexpats.blogspot.com
Anonymous
"Mike Pasture" / "Homelanddude" appears to have forgotten the extremely tough libel laws which apply to him here in the UK. He is falsely accusing people, without any facts, of being Iranian or Russian spies.
If he harasses any of you with more than two emails, then he can be arrested and prosecuted under the UK's Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
It is astonishing that he has betrayed the names of some British people apparently working at the US Embassy in London. That could very well get him up to 10 years in prison under the Terrorism Act 2000 section 58 collection of information.
If he has any sort of security clearance, it should be revoked immediately.
michelle yuill
What is the matter with our own Justice System, absolutely nothing, the man has Asperger Syndrome, he is British and we are capable of making sure that justice is serves. Gary McKinnon would not receive a fair trial in USA, who can trust a system that allowed Bush to head the couintry not only once that was bad enough but twice, I wouldnt trust them with my cat, for God sake UK government stop being a sidekick to USA the British dont trust the American Government as far as we can throw them, this is injustice we do not trust American so called justice Gary McKinnon will only get fair trial in British Court, what have we become, God help us all